No offense taken Greybro, I agree that there were a lot of bugs, hence the patches, I am also a keen hobbyist rather than a power user and dont push Poser 5 to it's limits which may well have a bearing on why my view of Poser 5 differs to yours, but I can only say it as I see it and my Poser 5 has run sweetly from day 1 and since the SR2 beta 1 patch is running a lot quicker than my Poser4/Pro pack ever did. Regards Graham