Its been fun for awhile here, but since it bothers everyone so much when a few speak up about things, I am going to be leaving Renderosity.

Dave-so, I am sorry to see you feel this way. Hopefully leaving Renderosity doesn't mean leaving the Community since there are many more sites out there. Jack

What, and let them win? (whoever they are).

Sorry to hear that Dave, don't know what's gone on just recently to make you feel that way as I've not been around much but I'm guessing it's a P5 issue, whatever it is, all I can say is if people drive others away like this then the community is on a slippery slope & that's a shame for all concerned. Take care mate & keep in the community if not here specifically. Brian

Goodness, I don't know you, though I've read many of your posts, but I certainly wish you would change your mind. Larry F PS: I must say a big THANK YOU for pointing me - by way of a post on the Poser mailing list to your son's gallery.

dave dont do this to yourself.....this whole p5 thing and cl vs daz thing is nothing new....this is no different than the renderosity vs poser forum a few years back ....jack can back me up on that ....this site will always be filled with negativity and positivity ....its no different than living in society ....i dont like many of the members here and im sure there are members here who dont like me neither .... but i dont give a rats ass about them and vice versa ...but they ...as do i ...have a right to have a spot here and voice our opinions ....good or bad.... nnuu

Hey Dave, the great thing about the format here is that you can scan threads and pick and choose. I've begun to avoid people who seem to have an axe to grind or their own personal/business agenda or just like to start a fight. There are lots of other folks who cause me to check out a thread I wouldn't otherwise because I've come to value their input. Lately I have been exiting more threads fast when I find them to be nasty or repetitive, but it's always worth stopping by here for those that are interesting/useful. I'm sorry some people are so angry about one thing or another. I'm not, and I don't think most folks here are. Poser 4 was getting a bit stale for me; we have really squeezed an amazing amount out of it. I'm having fun again with the two Really Great Deals I've gotten lately - my Poser 5 upgrade and the Platinum Club. I expect we'll be seeing a lot more sharing of tips and tricks as more folks start getting farther along on the admittedly non-trivial Poser 5 learning curve. Hope you stick around and keep posting about your Poser adventures (Oh, no, not another learning experience!) - Elisa/gryffnn

Don't let the nabobs of negativity get you down! There's plenty of us who are actually pleasant to be around!

Here's the rub..... I can't help myself....I see things maybe differently than others....why? Maybe I'm what becomes a dissident, a rebel, a revolutionary. Why can't I walk in file like most others? It bothers me....why do I complain, bitch about stuff. Why do others just sit back and accept thinks as they are and I can't? Why do I see problems at work that others just perceive as nusances and ignore them....I have one hell of a rocky boat. Perhaps its the same reason I listened to the Stones, Jimi Hendrix, and Led Zeppelin when I was a kid instead of the Beach Boys and Paul Anka...or read Noam Chomsky...and god forbid, even read Karl Marx and Mao....but believe me, I'm pretty far from being a communist....although probably on the left just a bit :) I don't believe in the death penaly or war, or killing...why do most of the people, especially in the U.S. believe that killing is good ???? or at least a means to find peace ????? Am I a sick cookie????? When did I go through the Twilight Zone ? So, in order for me to not go off the deep end all the time, what can I do? I can't control myself...and I want to... So...leave here and not worry about the P5 thing, that for the most part didn't seem to bother most folk ? I can't condone silencing threads here by moving them to some obscure place, or locking them, whatever, but understand the fact that the owners of this list can do as they damn well please...and actually haven't contributed to the debate hardly at all...stayed pretty neutral, probably a good idea for them..... I'm a f"""n lunatic !!!! Who even gives a squat? I'm just mashing words for the sake of mashing ;) If I could apply just half of the energy wasted in writing some of my heated posts, and even this one, in learning and creating art, I'd be a frickin Mozart......wait a second, he was a musician...how about a frickin Escher...or Dali.... See, even my artist heroes are edgy folks.... Although I have seen some of Warhole's stuff...real life...and tomato soup cans aren't too artsy....suppose if you pop some haze and see the soup boiling it may be a bit different. They say creative people are right-minded....my mind is left, right, upside down, and sideways.... Yikes....hey Anton, are those tranquilizers any good ???

Or...apply as much useful info and content to the group as I do chatter and clatter...that would be good.... By the way, listening to forty licks as I write...great set :)

[[Why can't I walk in file like most others?]] Why in Hell would you want to?? As far as I'm concerned, anybody who can only be "just like everybody else" is a non-person, just another carbon copy out of the vast herd of carbon copies. Individuality is what makes personality. Without the first, you really don't have any of the 2nd.

You lost me after "here's the rub" Dave, I know how you feel too, this whole P5 thing is riculous, bugs and fixes,and the next day more bugs and more fixes, what it all boils down to, is Big corporations don't listen to the public, as far as americans liking war and killing, we have to remember that this country was founded on war, Andy war hall Was a NUT, Hendrix Was a Genious ,And God BLESS AMERICA.

I'm Still Sticking to P4 By the way, if it ain't broke don't fixit.

Wow, I was with you till, stated you did not listen to the BeachBoys... you must get a copy of Good Vibration Album... :) From Jimi H "if the 6 turned out to be 9" Niles

Dave, hang around buddy. There are a select few that I feel drive this community from otherwise potential mediocrity. You are one of those guys Dave. Without "rebels", the world would still be flat. You know your on track when you are persucuted for your ideas. All the great one's were. Most people hate change. They like things to be comfortable. Then there's you, and people like Jackson, and myself who just can't sit by and live in a polyanna, plastic world. What would be the point. You know, my daughter said it in her way just the other day as she noticed me going through the usual thread dance. She said,"are you looking for Dave-so's comments, you always do..you like him don't you dad." From the mouths of babes. Ya I do like Dave because he speaks from the heart and anyone that has a problem with that, you know where to find me....I'm Lapis. Dave for the record, I used to listen to ACDC and you know where that got me? My own radio show in a major market. Dave keep on keepin on friend and well talk to ya real. soon

Dave, you seem like a good bloke, even though I don't know you very well, I have read some of your posts. But before you hit the road, consider a few things... This is an internet forum, not real life. Oh, sure it reflects some of the things in real life, such as the different personalities who choose to post here and the various business/personal/whatever issues that are discussed. BUT it's still emphatically not real life. If there are problems with some company's software or another company's attitude to yet another company, who really gives a damn? Unless you have a financial stake in any of these organizations, or you're employed by any of 'em, why worry? After all, none of it is preventing you from doing what you want to do, which is creating 3D graphics and associated bits and pieces. If company A is tearing company B an new one, let 'em get on with it. And if they're co-operating, that's equally none of your (or my) concern. Take the P5 debacle, just as an example... What good does it do for anyone here to speculate on the whys and wherefores of who is talking to whom and about what? After all, your software won't suddenly vapourise if DAZ and CL don't get together. Whatever happens, you still have your skills, your expertise and your software. So, if and when it gets you down, switch the damn machine off and take a walk outside.

Dave-So. I feel slighted. You say it bothers "everyone so much" when ... speak up about things. Being part of "everyone", I disagree. It bothers SOME PEOPLE. Let THEM go away. Or let them voice their own opinions, and don't over-generalize it to mean that you are unwelcomed by a whole community! Perhaps the real issue is the struggle all of us must go through, to communicate via e-mail without being misunderstood. I for one take your regrettable disgruntlement as a reminder to not jump to conclusions about where someone else is coming from, and to strive to not over-react when someone rubs me the wrong way. (I'd rather stick around until someone rubs me the RIGHT way. heehee.) -- Steve S.

hang on a sec folks.... I have to eat dinner.... what a fruitcake? no, a BLT and curly fries :) Hey samtherapy....I need some ;) You guys are all OK...and I'm OK, I think I am a reactionary...and take things too seriously. I had this Canadien fella tell me at a party one time to lighten up a bit. Now that doesn't seem all that big of a deal, other than the fact I had already consumed 10 or 12 beers, I lost count after the pint of JD, and was still as tight as a violin string :)

maybe you are a realist? certainly nothing wrong with that. don't leave! and the rolling stones rock!

Stones..they do...have been fortunate to see them several times in concert.... The new one is a bit pricey, although if I quit buying Poser stuff, I could afford to go... ISN'T THAT PECULIAR :)

Hehehehehehe! Dave you better stick around. Ron

Attached Link: http://www.fluffybunny.com/scopes.html

Concert stories...I could tell you a few. Peter Gabriel brought the house down but didn't they all. Okay, maybe the village people didn't but everyone else. warning This thread may be off topic. Move it and you'll have to contend with a couple guys full of piss n vinegar cause this is our place too and we kinda like it here.

Hey I got to see Jimi too! Ron

ok ok...New subject....damn you guys are tough ! How can I SEE YA when you keep yappin on stuff like this. Jimi...wow.... Here's a good one... I saw the Bee Gees :) at the Boston Common...outside concerts...back in the days of love, flowers, pot, and other great stuff....or was I dreaming ? So obviously I "can" listen to the Beach Boys...but Santana is better...actually my thing is blues....British Blues..Clapton, John Mayall, and stuff like that...altohugh Susan Tedesci is really good.

We need reactionaries. We need revoluionaries. We need other points of view. We need the sometimes strident voice to point out the stupidity of a situation, and make us realize we are the ones who are important. We are less when someone leaves. Dave, I don't always agree with anything you say in a post, but I ALWAYS read them. Your POV helps the rest of us develope our own, whether for, against, or over to one side. Sure, there are disagreements, and sometime heated arguments. But I don't know of a disfucntional family anywhere that doesn't have them, and I've never seen a functional family except on 60's sitcoms. Don't go. And if you do go, the prodigal will be welcomed back with a fatted calf and open arms (even if there is a knife hidden up a sleeve). Besides, you ain't gonna let them win, are you?

By the way, one of my kids, I have a few, has a Jimi tie that he wears on special occassions, like school stuff where he has to dress up :) He's a metal head, guitar and sax player..along with that big stick thing from Australia :) And boingo drums.

It's Canadian, Dave not "canadien" unless you're talking to a French Canadian hockey fan...in whitch case, he's probably had a few more than you have...:) Don't invest yourself too much in this sort of forum. It's simply not worth it. As for the P5 issue, I do not agree with a lot of the points you and others have made, (my situation is different and I've had to learn to become patient), but I still tune in when time permits and see if you can change my mind... Does that mean I don't care, NO. I manage to divert my passion to other things and other works. If I can't I go for a walk in the woods... Stay or go. It's your choice. But if you leave this forum will be diminished and poorer IMHO. Cheers, Q PS: I only listen to Classical music now. I don't know why.

P.S. Think Pink Pony. As Legume is to art, you are to postings.

Classical...probably because of your name... Sorry about the Canadien thing...you sure it isn't Canadien ? I'm French Canadian...maybe that's why :) didn't I leave before, one time ? No, that was my wife..sorry

Ha! Canadian is a beer, so we can let it go. Tabarnaque... Let the wife go, you stay. Q

Dave I do have one bone to pick with you. Damn it Dave since your Rolling Stones thing, I've now got Under My Thumb playing over and over in my brain. Make it stop Dave. Dave...make it go away. Dave what do you think about John Hiatt and Lou Reed?

No-No We won't let you go=No No we won't let you go. Dave I've enjoyed so much your posts. I like you because you are such an indivial, out spoken person. We need your Vocie or should I say words in here. By the way I still play my Janis Joplin. And you want to go way back I still think the Kings "Elvis". Dave if you go then I would have to quit reading the forum. You have given me more than one smile. Leah We need pitbulls to keep us all awake.

Ahhh John Mayall, lot of people jammed with him. Thumbs up on the Blues.

woof Sorry, being outspoken, I have to honestly say I've never liked Elvis, can you believe that? Except for that "Devil In Disguise" song. So hopefully you haven't changed your mind about my leaving...Janis is one of my all time favorites. Lapis...how about "Satisfaction" its playing right now :) John Hiatt and lou Reed I like...in fact I have the original Velvet Underground Warhol Banana album...unfortunately someone peeled it.

Welcome back!

see you guys got me out of my mind again....

Life is a wirl pool. Those who do not like change are easily overwhelmed. So Dave it seems to me you swim very well. Personally I think your posts are just fine and with out them something would be missing. :)

Dave, you want something to cheer you up? Go read the last post in that DAZ/Mimic thread about 3 pages back. How do you think that came about? We're relentless!

Sorry it the last comment from Larry that is of special significance.

That is a very good statement. Yes, things are progressing :)

Now tell me when you get brave enough to install the latest patch caus ize chichen..cluck, cluck ,cluck.

I can't recall disagreeing with you anywhere but I think I see part of your problem. When you make a statement like this: "I don't believe in the death penaly or war, or killing...why do most of the people, especially in the U.S. believe that killing is good ????"
people like me will challenge you on it. :) "Most" is not appropriate (or correct) and neither was "especially in the US".

PLEASE SKIP TO HERE () if you want to avoid many words. The wording may be part of the problem in that statement, however, if you were to take a poll, or if you see the polls on TV...the majority of Americans agree with the President that we should attack Iraq....you can't deny that..although the tide is turning...but majority equates to "most".....war involves killing....now if you say that most Americans don't agree with that, then why do the polls say they do? Also I read that most nations of the world totally disagree in our attacking Iraq...perhaps it has nothing to do with killing or anything, as there is sure plenty of that going around, but we're leading the pack in perpetuating the violence in the mideast. Why do we have the death penalty in the U.S....apparently someone voted for that...is this not a country that things happen because of a majority decision? If there is a death penalty, we must believe in killing. Its happening more and more besides. Even this sniper thing...most of the comments I've heard have been such as...they will spend 10 years in prison thinking about this before they're executed....and such talk...what the hell is that ? check this: The United States' debate on the morality and efficacy of capital punishment reached an important juncture on June 29, 1972. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled the death penalty unconstitutional because in some cases it violated the Eighth Amendment, which protects citizens from "cruel and unusual punishment." National Moratorium Beginning in 1967, while awaiting the Supreme Court ruling, and for the next nine years, the states stopped executions. In July of 1976, however, the Court upheld the death penalty as a legitimate punishment for certain crimes, opening the door for Congress and the state legislatures to make the death penalty an option again. Today, while more than half of the countries in the world have abolished the death penalty in law or practice, the United States continues to use the death penalty in all but 12 states (plus the District of Columbia). From January 1977 through April 2001, 710 executions were carried out in this country: 545 by lethal injection, 149 by electrocution, 11 by gas chamber, three by hanging, and two by firing squad. Check this: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/DeterMRates.html http://www.geocities.com/bglane_54/international.html Ah...its the word "good"...we abhore killing.....but then why do we have a death penalty...why do we partake of war? Why does the U.S. have the highest incidence of murder in the world ? Well we don't, but for developed countries we're right near the top of the list....plus the deterence of capital punishment sure hasn't stopped it.... () OK, I will give you that my statement was a bit strong in condemnation of America..."especially" was probably wrong, as it is sure a part of world order....I'm still not convinced about the "most" part of it, however. Perhaps MOST Americans do not believe in killing..I know we are sure taught not to kill, in church, in school, and so forth..but I have a small inkling in the back of my head that says we will sure condone it if we think we're in the right, and its necessary for our security and economic survival. OK...now this thread will probably get locked, or banned , or both, as it is getting too far removed from the whole deal. However, if you wish to discuss this further, or anyone else here on Renderosity, feel free to check this list out: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/artists-speak-out/

Turtle wrote: No-No We won't let you go. Well, I've got this ctrl-V thing I can do.No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you go=No-No We won't let you goThen the police arrive...this little corner of the internet fills with tear gas...some entrepreneurs start calling news stations to sell their video tape...No ties to Bin Laden are found...and I need another beer. Dave-So, I'll bring you one too.Ha- now you have to stay long enough to finish the beer. Quick someone, beer run.

Anybody who likes Santana and Susan Tedesci cannot be all that lost ... and I hate killing and war as well, everyone in this country doesn't necessarily agree with the actions of the government. You're not so different Dave ... you're just not part of the herd ... and that's a good thing. :-) Rhi

He, as well as anyone else, can see that he enjoys it here more than he hates it. Sometimes, it's that simple. Now, Dave-so, try some Delerium or Enigma and veg out a bit...(smile)

I'm still awake too... Not sure yet...i note with great interest another heated debate on the newly released sr2-2beta I do love this place...its an outlet for my mind.

Big minds need big outlets. Hang around. I've read lots of posts where you commented. I've seen lots of people "jumped" and flamed. It's a friggin' community of free-thinkin' artists. Whatcha gonna do? Can't blame ya for not liking Elvis much. I like some of his later stuff, but, gimme "Karma" by Delerium anyday. LOL. Here's another thought... Do your comments, however unpopular they may seem, provoke thought? Are they intended to provoke thought? If you are answering yes, hang around...you just might be in the minority, that's all.

Dave's back to his old self again.