And in defense of IB: All I perceive is his (and a few others) trying to keep things honest. If the damned problems are there, then they're there and hiding your head in the sand doesn't really make them go away. I for one, have been duped by exclamatory posts accompanying the release of products here, bought them, and was disappointed. I think those lauding products should be required to identify themselves as having been beta testers and therefore, received said product free. I was approached once and when I said I didn't want anything free I was told it wasn't free...all I had to do was post glowing reviews. No, I'm not going to name names but it really opened up my eyes. The same principle applies to this P5 fiasco. There are people here for whom, in the past, I've had the utmost respect and now that's dwindling. I'm not swayed one way or the other by the revelations. What does sway me, is the way they have to be brought forward.