Greybro if you have read many of my earlier posts about CL you will realize my nose is nowhere near the nether regions of CL....lol I just am trying to get a different perspective on the whole thing. I now own the program. I cannot get a refund for said program. No matter what I say, they will do what they will do. So I am trying to make the best of what I have, with the help of some of the people here who are working at making Poser 5 a better program. Marque