Hiram: Here! Here! Most of the art of the Renaissance - paintings, frescos, mosaics, murals, architecture, music - was commisioned by some wealthy businessman, royalty, or the church. JS Bach, DaVinci, Michaelangelo, Raphael, Donatello (and other Ninja Turtles!) were all handsomely paid for their work. In my case, "real" art is defined by the skill of the artist in how he/she uses the tools available and the presentation resulting, not fame or pocket book (or lack thereof). Square blocks painted on canvas or paint splattered willy-nilly (seemingly in a fit of spasm) are not art (sorry - that sums up my basic feelings about most abstract art, especially that of the latter half of the twentienth century). Would you call someone whose only trick is making a coin disappear in the same manner everytime a "real" magician? No, that's a 'one trick pony', a 'one hit wonder', a hobbyist, amateur, but not a "real" magician. As for naked people scurrying about rendered scenes, I have no problem as long as it is done tastefully and with a purpose (even if just to be erotic). Frazetta had more "Vicky's in a temple with a sword" type art than I can remember, but he was a professional, "real" artist, whose art had a purpose - even if pandering to the nether regions of the male anatomy. ;) Kuroyume

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone