Great as always Gerald! Because of you I am now trying - trying being the operative word - to learn to model using anim8or. I tried Carrara and Raydream but scared myself. I am doing better in anim80r. Though I need to learn how to keep the polycount down. I did a pith hat via a lathed spline and used subdivision to round the corners, but guess I over did it cause I ended up with something around 5 mbs. LOL! I don't know how to reduce it yet, if that can be done, so I am starting over. Say a prayer for me. I really am all thumbs at this stuff. So you really amaze me with what you can do. :O)