Collision is broken in general in P5. Even with the 2nd SR2 Beta, the results I get with it between 2 actors is very unpredictable. Because of the normals issue you mention, I've seen actors pass into another actor and then get trapped inside the other objet. CL's T/S says that it (collision detection) was never intended to be a big feature and that occasional or erratic collision detection is better than none.:-/ pixelslave