ya know... I wasn't gonna say anything, but the more I thought about it, the more ticked I got. "The picture in first place is pretty but dang it's half a digital picture then rinsed thru it looks like 4 other programs" If you are referring to my image, which was voted first it the september challenge-which this thread refers to- then look again. That render was pure Bryce, no post other than putting my name on it. The version that I put in the gallery had just a little bit of work done where the cloud plane meets the terrain, thanks to a comment from Rayraz, I believe. No major post-work.. nada... none. The vast majority of entries this month (Oct) are mostly full Bryce renders with very little touch up, as you would know if you followed the forum and kept up as everyone discussed their piece as it was posted. Some are heavy on the post-work, and that's cool because it was stipulated in this month's rules that post-work was allowed. My entry has more post work than last month's, but still certainly not enough to say it was rinsed through 4 other programs. Bryce can do amazing things when used by people who know just a little about the program.