"So forget all of your conspiracy theories...and let's move on." Yeah, otherwise the trains might start running late... "Whether this policy was put in place 30 days from now or as it occured, the same outlashing of disapproval would have occured contrary to what is being said here." It's obviously not about when. It's about how.

::Kendra - i take it that you have polled the other 114,000 members of renderosity and 112,000 + said that they disagree with this policy?:: oh man, dont let me go on a tangent here. DONT... I mean stop me please... How many of those people are actually active members?? I mean, after you culled out the inactive accounts and the duplicate names? And then from that number, how many of them are active members that buy in the MP? I'm actually not asking for this question to be answered... just Ive seen such number throwing before at other places I've worked and volunteered for (not poser or 3d related sites) ... all of which have either folded or are NO longer are managed by the same company I might add! And some of those companies are pretty BIG!

on that note, bowing out. Seen enough. :) have fun all! Just when you start throwing out numbers of the records of the database as how many members you actually have... man, just wave a red flag in front of my face... :) Its nothing to do with Poser though... just it raises a red flag with me because of like, 8 years of dealing with internet startups and entrepreneurs...

It's not about numbers, it's about complete disregard and misrepresentation of the facts on the part of those that are only aiming to bash RR here. The point is - she is trying to make everyone believe that there is a huge outpouring of disapproval for this policy. The fact is, there is some disapproval of this policy. But nothing even remotely close to the extreme that she would like everyone to believe. We have given the reasons for the policy, there is nothing more to say, nor is there a good way to tell people that they can't visit the merchants forum any more because they run competitive brokering sites. Unfortunately, it is a part of business and you can't make everyone happy. But in reality, there is also an outpouring of approval for this policy but it is transparent to this forum because many other merchants and members choose not to be bashed by those of you who enjoy doing so quite ruthlessly.

tutone1234 said: >"All of the members that you believe disagree with the policy here are seeing first hand why such a policy had to be implemented by the behavior of the PP admin/mods in this forum."< I think I've just been insulted. No, wait, I've been "bashed", yeah, that's it, I've been bashed. Hmm...let's see here... LadySilverMage is neither an admin, nor a mod at PP. Ditto Stormrage, Ironbear, Entropic, and others. Yes, two or three of the people who have been the most outspoken on this issue are PP staff, but the MAJORITY of those who have spoken out against this policy, who have requested the removal of their store, who have protested the breach of the merchant's agreement (which is, a valid contract, btw, and therefore the legal arguments are quite correct - my lawyer told me so) are not on staff at PP and never have been. I am extremely upset by this new policy, but I am even MORE upset by the way Renderosity staff has handled the backlash. I've kept pretty quiet through this whole debacle. I've watched to see what would happen, how things would be handled, what sort of concessions would be made or alternatives offered to keep the affected merchants in the loop with regards to necessary marketplace information (the things the NEED to know like banner rotation, upload procedures, packaging requirements, etc. - those things necessary to running a good store) but all I have seen from the RR staff who have posted on this issue has been derision, condescension, accusation and obfuscation. There hasn't been a single direct answer to a question other than "it only applies to merchants who have their own brokerage sites." That was the first and last direct answer to a direct question. Nowhere did I see anything about the possibility of perhaps an occasional merchant newsletter being sent out when policy or marketplace changes are made, thus keeping those who lack access to the forum up to date on essential information. Nowhere did I see any mention of a possible alternate access to the merchant resource center or other non-proprietary/sensitive areas. Nope. Didn't see any of that. What I saw was sniping, sarcasm, "talk to the hand" attitude and "this doesn't affect you so why are you worried about it?" posts. And even when those who are "unaffected" TOLD you why they were worried about it, y'all just brushed them off with an "oh, pish tush, you're being silly, now go play nice and stop bothering us." style of response. All I can say to this entire broughaha is "Hand me my hipwaders cuz it's gettin' deep in here, Ma." Kate (who has gone out of her way to behave herself in this forum in regards to this issue but has come to some very important decisions after much thought and reflection)

Tutone: Have you seen posts in favor of this policy? No. Except from R'osity staff. Odds are, the silent majority, of which I was one until your post just now, beleives this to be a bad idea. But only those with the MOST outrage are speaking against it. As a side note, I have only one item in a place other than R'osity, which has never sold a single copy. I am not subject to the terms of the Merchant Forum bans, therefore. However, while I'm leaving my store in place here, I have decided to "branch out", so to speak. I am not making a brokerage site or anything like that, but I will begin making products available at other brokering sites. To hedge my bets, so to speak.

Alright, screw the policy issue. I am pretty damn new to this community, so I don't have the history of piss fights that have apparrently been going on. But you know what? I don't care. Keep calling it a business issue. I am royally PISSED at how you, and Tim, are treating ME, a BUSINESS PARTNER. I have questions and concerns about business practices, and R'osity is ignoring me and crapping on me. You are dismissing my voice as being an extension of your own paranoid fantasy instead of treating me with the courtesy due a human being. I have questions and concerns. Because they are the questions and concerns of a business partner, they are VALID. ADRESS THEM. DO NOT IGNORE ME.

tutone1234 Every vendor I know has been negative on this. Every one, some of whom are exclusive here. I'm just an observer... and look - I'm not bashing your right to have privacy. I'm just being pragmatic. Excluding them from the merchants forum was just causing yourself problems you didn't need to have. You could have made a new forum for your exclusive vendors ... but even that would not be secure. The relationships of people here are deep and varied, you just don't know who is all friends of who here. Copy and paste, people handing out their passwords, making fake accounts - how do you keep them out? Now, I understand completely the frustration with certain people here. I can see why you would have gotten angry - I would have gotten angry too. But I am saying - you could have dealt with just that member or couple of members, instead of making a blanket policy that has alienated people you didn't really need to alienate. I've said a few things that you could have done differently, and sure, there would be a fight from the people you talk about - I'd expect it. But its trickled down to people that it shouldn't have trickled down to. People that are not the persons of which you speak - but they don't post here because of fear of reprisals. I'm not a vendor - I'm just a user of this website, and I buy things here too - I've spent quite a lot here in fact. And I'm going to be a user again, like I was in the 2 years of lurking here before - like the rest of everybody else. Just a user.

"It's about numbers. No wiat - it's not about numbers. It's about bashing. No wait - it's not about bashing. It's about thinking. No wait - it's not about thinking." Ummm... whose serve is it now?

<...still fuming...>

{It's really quite simple. None of the admin or mods here at RR go over to PP and bash PP all day. Yet quite a few of you come to RR and bash RR all day. Nor do we bash PP here in our own forums. Yet quite a few of you find time to bash RR in the PP forums. All of the members that you believe disagree with the policy here are seeing first hand why such a policy had to be implemented by the behavior of the PP admin/mods in this forum.} tutone, are you saying that because PP and some of its admins/mods have "bashed" Renderosity, you instituted a policy that affects me, LadySilverMage, DAZ and BBAY (for starters. Others may come later) in an effort to be "fair"?

By voicing my objections to the current policy change, I have NOT bashed Renderosity, I have STRONGLY disagreed with the PTB that set these wheels in motion. I still believe very strongly in a Community focused around topics and programs that interest them, along with hinging an Online Store as a means to make that Community prosper and help pay for its continued growth. It's growth should not just be determined exclusively by a select few individuals or company, but should be diversified to attract new visions, new goals and healthy competition to which the entire Community can benefit from. Nor should there be discriminatory actions placed upon other individuals or companies who seek to offer their goals or visions to be utilized in their own Community site in which the entire Community (including the companies that provide service to that Community) could profit from. When I speak out about the policy changes here, I am not BASHING Renderosity. I am questioning the actions of the individuals who own and control the path of Renderosity towards Monopolization of the Community that it seeks to service. It's primary goal now seems to be one of "Control", "Discrimination" and "Restriction of Trade". This recent direction doesn't do anything to benefit anyone but the owners of Renderosity and it restricts the growth of this Community which also harms Curious Labs and DAZ who helped and quite honestly created this Community. The owners and operators of this website have to learn, or should quickly learn, that THEY are not the Community. Everyone who has ran a Community site (myself included) had to, or has to, at some point come to terms that though they help to shape this Community by the actions and services that they provide, that THEY are NOT the Community. When I speak against the policy changes that are enforced in Renderosity, I am NOT attacking Renderosity. Tim is not Renderosity. Tammy is not Renderosity. JeffH is not Renderosity. Tutone is not Renderosity.... Renderosity is the Community that gather here, trading, sharing and selling their works with others in the effort to EXPAND the Community. And just because I disagree with the powers that be who are the landlords of this gathering place and voice that disagreement, in no way does that mean that I am "bashing" the people who live in that place. As an individual who also lives in this place and interacts with this Community here, even though I may be a part of a company that also has a brokerage site, I have the right to disagree with the way that I see this place heading since it also affects me as a part of this Community. My disagreement is with the owners of this website, not with the members who visit it. So, please, don't be so concieted to believe that because I disagree with the management that I am "bashing" Renderosity. Jack

DTHUREGRIF - If you read between the lines, then you may come up with that answer. But if you actually read what was written, I was making it clear that we understand that several Admins & Mods from PP have been very committed to bashing RR on both sites. That comment had nothing to do with the policy. That comment was grouped with another explaining that too many of you are distorting what is being said. This is yet another clear example of that. Thanks.

Post 45 {If a little more attention was given to what is being said instead of the extreme willingness to read between the lines all of the time then the majority of this argument would have been dropped a long time ago.} Post 64 (If you read between the lines, then you may come up with that answer.}

I am trying to read what is actually being said. Not reading between the lines.

I read the 'big picture' and that told me enough. I think I've had enough of the newspeak game and the ministry of truth. I see all of my very valid technical points have been collectively ignored. Have fun guys.

"That comment was grouped with another explaining that too many of you are distorting what is being said." I'm going to group that with the observation that there's distortion of what's being said, as well as flat ignoring things said by members that are not PP [or other site's] admins etc on your side of this, tutones. I don't really give a damn. I am curious as to why you're stuck out here trying to do damage control and PR. Aren't you one of the site programming staff? Isn't PR Tammy and Tim's job?

You are twisting what was said so that you can assume that this policy is based on PP bashing Renderosity. It is not. The comment about PP bashing RR is a result of the actions of those individuals since the policy has been implemented. So the new flame you are trying to start has now been extinguished. I do honestly hope that you are reading what is being said rather than proceeding to fuel yet another hypothetical argument.

Um... so what about those of us that are asking questions and posting concerns who are NOT a part of PP?? Seems to me that if you believe it is an attempt to get into a site war, then why are you focusing on it? (and I am not saying that Poser Pros want's a site war, I think they are just as concerned as the rest of us). Why not focus more on the issues and concerns that others have and fix this problem before it leads to greater trouble?? Stop trying to direct this topic into an US vs THEM situation and let's start working on ways in which to remedy this situation to everyone's benefit. Jack

Thank you Jack.

Programming staff?? Since WHEN is programming staff the official mouthpiece for the Community??? Can't Tim do his own dirty work now?

Jack, As I pointed out earlier, if you are sincere in doing this then you may contact ClintH and he will be happy to assist you in anyway possible to make the best of this situation. I am certain that he will make it a point to notify you on any issues that will directly affect you as a merchant of Renderosity. I believe this has been expressed by several members of the Admin/Mods here. As for the policy itself, I am quite certain that it is in place to stay.

" But in reality, there is also an outpouring of approval for this policy but it is transparent to this forum because many other merchants and members choose not to be bashed by those of you who enjoy doing so quite ruthlessly." raising eyebrow Hmmmm No one I know is bashing.. they are trying to figure out WTH you all did this in your own typical way. AFTER ASKING FOR FEEDBACK you were going to ignore anyway. It would be nice to see the other sides arguments on why this is necessary.. Everyone I have talked to are angry and upset with this. Especially, with the way it was handled!.. Again. "All of the members that you believe disagree with the policy here are seeing first hand why such a policy had to be implemented by the behavior of the PP admin/mods in this forum." raising eybrow even higher Actually I am seeing the same behavior by Rosity staff. including your own behavior, tutone. Which as an ADMIN you should be trying to diffuse the flames not be throwing wood on the fire. I have not seen any of the pp mod's in here blasting you all. or is that bashing? I have seen them get angry and leave. That's it. yet your own mods and admins (Some not all) are stirring the pot. "If you read between the lines, then you may come up with that answer." thinking Why should anyone have to read between the lines? Why not spit it out? You obviously have something to say.. you are in the position to say it.. and if I am right about who you are.. You are in the KNOW about this. So say it already. Of the PP admins/Mods in the marketplace forum I never NEVER saw them bash rosity unless it was over some policy such as this one that MOST of the merchants disagreed upon. The rosity OWNERS and ADMINS really need to sit down and discuss what the heck is going on and how to post about this issue rather than just posting and causing the pot to boil over because you would rather dump more wood on the fire than actually DO Something constructive with the water. IF you wanted to get Mehndi out of your store, then you should have come up with a reason to ban her rather than this and penalizing ALL the Site owners because of one individual. I still don't think she was as disruptive as you all claim. I do think that you all handled this wrong, You have alienated not just merchants but customers.. (as we all can tell by our sales the last few days of this.) and you think it's going to go away quietly. It's not. I really am glad I am not you. Because until something changes you know this issue is not going to die.

"I do honestly hope that you are reading what is being said rather than proceeding to fuel yet another hypothetical argument." Which do you want? US to READ BETWEEN THE LINES OR NOT?

I didn't assume anything. I asked a question. The problem is, I am seeing different versions of the reason for and justification of this policy being posted by different representatives of this site. {Now you see the political landscape. If you were DAZ, DSI, 3DC, PoserPros, etc, what would you do? Would you trash Curious Labs, Content Paradise, and try vigorously to stall Poser 5's introduction in the market? Would you consider releasing a competitive product to Poser to better control your destiny? Now some of the political drum breating by these factions may make a little more sense. It just did not make sense to provide a platform for that drum beating here.} Tim's reasoning would make the most sense to me, except for the fact that some of the most vigorous "drum beaters" do not own brokerages and still have access to the merchants forum here, as well as all of the public forums. I'm not saying that he is right in his assumption that we are trying to stall Poser 5 or hurt Curious Labs (we do after all make product for that program). But I can see how he thinks this makes a good argument.

{I am certain that he will make it a point to notify you on any issues that will directly affect you as a merchant of Renderosity. I believe this has been expressed by several members of the Admin/Mods here.} The real problem with this method is that many issues that go on here are discussed among the merchants and policy is decided based on those discussions. At least that is the premise. This cuts out any voice a locked out merchant might have in policies that directly affect them. And being able to voice opinions to Clint alone (even beforehand) isn't enough. All the other merchants are able to talk to each other and present their views to each other. If Renderosity is truly going to listen to their opinions or let them vote, then a locked out merchant is at a great disadvantage. Too great a disadvantage to make it worth selling here for me.

BTW, that reading between the lines comment works both ways. If the PTB here didn't automatically assume that we are all out to bash Renderosity for our own agendas, you might actually see that we have some valid points.

"I do honestly hope that you are reading what is being said " Oh, I am. All of it.

Well said, Diane and that is why I am not really troubling Clint about this. One, he isn't the one who created this policy... only a person who has the unfortunate task of enforcing it. Two, this whole situation has been brought and discussed publically and in an effort to solve it, should be done so as such for the benefit of the Community, merchants, potential merchants and Customers who have been watching this play out very closely. A solution to this situation should not be done behind closed doors or privately between people... it should be done unilaterally. Jack

agreeing with Ironbear.. Are you reading between the lines as well? I am.. and oooh is it interesting

Stormrage - Why is it that everyone that spends so much time bashing RR at PP all day thinks this is all about Mehndi? This is about an issue bigger than Mehndi. This is about the people that really want to be a part of the RR community. This is about making the merchants forum as much a place of trust and honesty as possible as well as providing benefits and features to the merchants without providing an advantage to our competition. It is evident that this cannot happen without restricting competition from this forum. Competitive Merchants - If you want to get into hairy details and further argument, then I suggest you contact Tim directly. However, if you want to stay informed of marketplace issues that will affect your store and your sales then ClintH will do everything in his power to make sure that it is a successful endeavor. Other Merchants and Members - If you want an answer as to why this was implemented or how this could have been done better, well the truth is that no matter how you present something like this, the same uproar would have occured. If we give notice that it's going to happen in x amount of days, the fact that it was still going to happen would not have softened the issue. If we open another forum, then someone is still going to feel left out of one place or another which will just start yet another uproar. The fact is that there are a lot of things that go on behind the scenes (which some of you are aware and some of you have been given information that has been skewed to look favorable for those opposing RR) that have lead up to this diffucult decision. There was a great deal of forethought that went into this decision and we were fully aware that some people would react very negatively to it. Nonetheless, the decision was made with intentions of bettering the community and it is unfortunate and regretful that some of you may never agree with the decision. But time will prove that RR has the best intentions of making this an excellent community to participate in 3D art on many levels. All of my remarks have been posted in an attempt to answer your questions, not to flame anyone. If you feel that I have done that, then I am sorry, but I do feel that many of your comments were meant to accomplish nothing but further argument. If you are truly a part of this community then I'm sure you will let cool heads prevail and see this through. With that said, this is my last comment on this issue.

Gotta give it to clint. He has certainly remained helpful and professional through all of this coughHINTcough. Thars more gold in them thar hills, I think I'll go mine over thar.

"This is about the people that really want to be a part of the RR community." Who says that those who you have cut out of the merchants forum didn't want to be a part of the RR community? "This is about making the merchants forum as much a place of trust and honesty as possible as well as providing benefits and features to the merchants without providing an advantage to our competition. It is evident that this cannot happen without restricting competition from this forum." What advantage? What was discussed in that forum that was giving them an advantage that the members, merchants haven't asked from you, and would not take to another store??? This is not about making the merchants forum a place of trust and honesty. It's about restricting for some reason.. which you wanted to do, but won't give the real reason. I will tell you this.. I do not trust rosity right now.. Why? because YOU are not who you pretend to be. you are an admin but You are not the tutone from the community forum. Who's playing games and why? How does a site programmer know so much inner workings of site politics?

"This is about making the merchants forum as much a place of trust and honesty as possible as well as providing benefits and features to the merchants without providing an advantage to our competition." Well, the way it was handled doesn't show a level of trust. Our opinions were asked for and when all but a very small handful of merchants expressed their disagreement with the policy (even when it didn't directly affect them) we were told "too bad, it's been done already". What was the point of asking for feedback then? Where is the trust there?

"This is about making the merchants forum as much a place of trust and honesty as possible " So... disagreeing with a Renderosity admin policy is dishonest now? Thats... fascinating. Trust? Trust and respect cut both ways. You want them, earn them. I'm still reading everything. This is bettering the "community" how, precisely? Daninagv ale utli-igai daninagv.

dang it Bear, stop with the Cherokee! My ancestors assimilated into the scots-irish so they would not be "removed", and so Granny never taught us the language.

No kien-sabe? ;] Heh heh heh... haven't spoken it myself in 20 years except when I go hunting up at Shadow's. I'm sure my syntax is still horrid, at least that's what fullbloods always tell me. ;]

"The point is - she is trying to make everyone believe that there is a huge outpouring of disapproval for this policy."

Tutone, I don't have to "make everyone believe" anything. The proof is in the forums.

*"If you want an answer as to why this was implemented or how this could have been done better, well the truth is that no matter how you present something like this, the same uproar would have occured.

If we give notice that it's going to happen in x amount of days, the fact that it was still going to happen would not have softened the issue."*

Actually that's not completely true. I don't know why I'm bothering to repeat myself, none of what I've said has sunk in. But speaking personally, I don't disagree with the policy. I know that little sentence will be skipped over the next time you or Jeff of anyone decides to comment to me but it's not exactly the first time I've said it.
I disagree with the WAY this was handled. I personally am upset that I don't feel I can trust this site to be run as a professional business. Had R'osity stated the new policy, given it's reasons and a date it would be implemented THAT would have been professional and I personally, wouldn't have had a problem with it. But instead this site has demonstrated that it is more than willing to break the agreement it has with all merchants, willing to lock them out at a moments notice while still accepting payments on their products. And THAT is what I have a problem with.

You all keep saying the same thing would have happened but if you read what people are saying, they are all saying they don't like HOW this was done. Some would have disagreed with the policy, yes. But not to this extent.
Again, read what's being said. Those who are asking that this be resolved have all said it's not the policy itself.

Damn, I love chaos.

If you are truly a part of this community then I'm sure you will let cool heads prevail and see this through Wha?! Are you saying that the ones that disagree with the way things were done are now 'rebels?' and 'outsiders?' Kendra - i take it that you have polled the other 114,000 members of renderosity and 112,000 + said that they disagree with this policy? Tutone: Whats say we actually take a poll? no? Why not? Is it because we already know the way it would come out? Nah, forget that as the poll would prolly be fixed in a way that would make 'Rosity to come out smelling like a rose..

tutone1234: "If you want an answer as to why this was implemented or how this could have been done better, well the truth is that no matter how you present something like this, the same uproar would have occured." That was actually the smartest statement tutone1234 has made in this thread so far. What I wonder is: if Renderosity understands this, why did they do it? I can't really understand that. Everybody with at least a grain of business experience understand that this policy change is absolutely pointless and will have no effect whatsoever on Renderositys ability to keep precious business secrets from any competitors they have (or think they have). The potential gain from this policy change (whatever that might be) is in no proportion to the damage incurred. And still they go on trying to justify it, and by every post they make to threads here, the hole they are digging for themselves just gets deeper... This entire issue will be perfect material for a Businees School to use as a case study in how badly thought out business decisions turned worse by bad communication skills, lack of damage control, paranoia about real or perceived competitors and a blatant unability to comprehend how all this affects business in the long run. Are you all amateurs running Rendersoity?? I haven't seen that anyone in this discussion is trying to bash you without reason and with evil intent. But if they would like to do that, you have presented yourself as a pretty easy target. And that is your own fault, and it's a problem you must deal with.

yep, ala Brave New World and Orwell, those of us that disagree are traitors - instead of just being people that disagree. Came across pretty clear to me too. As a Renderosity member and not part of the long factional history that is playing out here as well - I take it as a definite insult to those of us that simply are speaking our mind as concerned members of the service. But of course, I know they don't care and won't apologise, (sysgod syndrome) so I will leave it. Its their sandbox, so I'm just going to play with the sand and be happy I'm allowed to do that. Said my piece, and done. But I'll say this too - I'm insulted. I don't know if they want to remedy that, or if it even matters to them. Probably doesn't matter. Kelderek - agree with you totally. I'm going to crank back and see how the whole fiasco plays out. Because no amount of words is going to change the situation, or take Renderosity's head out of the sand either.

I'm not a merchant. I haven't given away freestuff. I've only recently begun posting to the galleries. However, I've been around, lurking (and learning) for years. Poser is a hobby to me, not my bread and butter, although it seems there are more than a few people around here who make a large chunk of their income from it, by either making art, or products for other artists to use. Now that I've clarified where I stand on that, and that my views are probably not "valid" to most of you, I want to state my two cents worth on this whole fiasco. It seems to me as if a lot of this nastiness could have been avoided if, when it was decided to make those changes in policy, they had notified merchants before implementing it, and given the ones who disagreed with this change in their current 'contract' time to decide what they wanted to do. It does not seem fair to me to make money off the hard work of a 'business partner' while denying them the same perks your other 'business partners' receive. Would it have been so difficult, since, apparently those in charge of making the decisions knew beforehand the merchants they intended to single out, to notify them of a possible upcoming change in policy, and allow those merchants time to decide if they wanted to continue to broker here, or not? I think (only my opinion, of course) that might have saved a lot of the nastiness. There would certainly still have been bad feelings, but in the position of some of the merchants who have been denied what they see as their 'rights' when they agreed to broker here, I would have some bad feelings about the change of policy, too, had it been sprung on me so suddenly. I certainly would not like the idea of someone making money off my work, while, in effect, telling me that they do not trust me, and that I do not have a place on their site, or any right to the same sort of input other brokers are receiving. I suppose I should have remained silent, as usual, but some things are worth speaking out about. I like this site, I've come here almost daily for years, and yes, I've spent my own hard-earned money (I'm a freelance artist of sorts, just not in the cgi field) in the store here. However, I'm unsure as to whether I will be spending more in the future, because I have a hard time swallowing the idea of supporting something I see as injustice done to other freelance artists, whatever their field.

Hecate, its called 'being professional' Which I haven't seen a lot of here. Well, I haven't seen it at a LOT of the poser sites to be honest. The most professional Poser online store, and the one that gets the lionshare of my money - has been and will continue to be Daz3d.

Any changes in a merchant agreement are not, legally speaking, retroactive, of course. You can't change a contract between two parties without mutual agreement.

Someone should tell Tim that... because I don't think we've heard the last in this situation and I've been around long enough to know that shit has a way of rolling down hill and it will only be a matter of time before it affects more than just site owners. As I've been saying since the start of this, where does the Discrimation end? Who is in charge of decerning who will be Discriminated against... and just how much longer do we have to wait till we see this begin to affect the moderators/admins of the other sites... or other merchants... where will it end? Till Renderosity is exclusive only? Till Merchants become afraid to post their products elsewhere for fear of rejection or discrimination? Things are bad here right now and saddly, they're about to get worse. And thankfully, for once, this isn't my fault and Tim can't pin this one on me... be interesting to see who he DOES pin this on... Jack

It's all my fault. ;]

Why would Tim pin this one on you Jack when Tim has a whole forum full of members that like to be stuck with pins time and time again. The good thing is they bleed in dollar signs; good for some, that is.

What I'd like to know is: Since it has become EXTREMELY apparent that this policy had been decided on, "signed, sealed and delivered" well before the "Input" was asked for, why in hell did you bother to ask for the "input" in the first place? What on earth did you think you would accomplish with that charade? I guess that for thinking, asking questions, and not blindly agreeing to anything/everything in the "official" position, I too am now a "traitor" and "untrustworthy" as defined in tutone's posts above. (Should really change his name to One-tone, since all he can do in answer to ANY question or statement is play the same repetitive old tune about 'everybody' "Conspiring" to "bash" RR.)