Here's some gasoline for the bonfire... Before I knew of any fractal generator program (circa 1995) that could do what I wanted to it to do I used Photoshop/Painter tools, filters, KPT plugins and anything other what is now termed: post-processing tool I could get my hands on. I did come to find that many of these tools either employed fractal algorithms directly or other mathematical formulae, so this accounts for many of the shapes I was able to come up with. I always started with a blank canvas and using gradient shapes created by the gradient tool and/or other paint tool and used the "post-processing" tool and other (editing) tools to "massage" it all about to get what I wanted. So, if I'm using a post-processing tool to actually create a fractal, and not applying it AFTER I create the fractal; and the end result looks/feels/acts like a fractal (whatever that might mean)...then am I creating a fractal a "post-processed" fractal...and/or a "pre-post-processed" fractal... If none of these were "fractals" I sure had a LOT of fractal types write me and demand/state that if I didn't publicly post my parameters and disclose what application I was using that I'd never "be recognized"... Giggle.... I went thru the hundreds of images that I created using these techniques and tried to pick just one that represented what I'm talking about. My goal then as it is now is to create and present scenes and motifs that no one has ever seen before. When someone looks at my work, I don't want to give them any reason to think about anything other than the theme/motif/shape, etc., that I've created. So, I do my best to "hide/mask" any "tool signatures". The best way I have found to do this is to only use those tools which I believe "enhances" my presentation, and not yet "label" it. I will use whatever tools are available to me to do this. If I have the/a tool "inside" the application--fine, I'll use it. If the tool doesn't exist inside, then I'll go outside. Cheers, ya'll Bryan