this whole discussion about "purity" seems to me like a very big missunderstanding between people who write to their postings "no postwork" and people who read this and think it's a shame to postprocess any images. but in my opinion it's not really a question of value what's better. if i put a standard-frame in photoshop to an image, i think it will be better to mention this by posting the image. because one could spend hours and nights by trying to make the same frame in ultra fractal. so it's better to know, i think, and fair to tell others where the technique comes from and how it's made. also if i made the frame in ultra fractal (just an example), it could be interesting for others to know, and they can ask me the formula etc. if they know it's a uf technique. now i always wonder about the human nature that tries to turn every information into a principal question!! ;-) happy fractaling! sophie