Argh, renderosity tried to eat my post!!! ha, I copied it in the nick of time... Rayraz...I'm with you on all of the things you mention, even the clouds...I've wished for better skies for a long time now. I can get lost for hours in some aspects of bryce but feel like I'm hitting brick walls in the skylab. Sure you can make a volume slab or the dreaded sky plane, but they both look like crap, and have not been improved upon since b3 fer chst's sake. AgentSmith, I have alot of respect for you, but the skylab is sadly lacking. If someone can show me volumetric clouds without leaving the skylab I'll happily eat those words. Can't even use bump channels on them, well u can but that also looks like crap. The best clouds I've seen were done with lattices and volumetrics, and 4 years mastering the program. Mojoworld has the most shockingly beautiful terrains I have seen from anywhere, except maybe parts of Utah and Alaska (screw hightmaps!). Terragen has the best atmosphere effects and Terrains every bit as good as bryce, and an intriqueing material system. For a renderer/texturer/scene builder combo bryce can't be beat, but in each aspect it is beaten hands down by other programs....they just can't do it all as bryce can. I keep eyeing other programs, if only they were more like bryce! I fear for my favorite program becoming obsolete, or worse given limited modeling ability without the features it has being brought up to date. I'll do most of my modeling elsewhere. I'll pose any figures elsewhere (now wouldn't that be nice). I'll map and paint textures elsewhere. I'll even modify and tweak terrains elsewhere. Just give me a better skylab, a nice foamy transition between beach and sea, and more material channels than you can shake a stick at (or a lumpy tree, for that matter). I don't care if it takes a week to render. Ok, I'll shutup now. Hey, he started it....8^)