Crescent, Would you believe Topcities is down? I can't get access to the file manager to finish the last stuff. I checked out another FREE SITE. For all, there is a place called Crosswinds, that will not put up banners and gives you, I believe 50 megs of space. If I cannot get access to the file manager by tomorrow morning, I am going to have to move the site. Or actually leave it up, and put another one up. I finally got the snippet code for the webring to work, but thanks for looking. Syyd