Hello! This is what I posted on UF List on 11-04-02 We should ask ourself this question: what do we use UF(or any other fractal program) for? Do we want to create 'Fractals" or do we want to create "Art" ? For me the best images are those ,which do not look like fractals.I do not want to hear from somebody...wow this is beautiful fractal.I want to hear ...wow this is beautiful image. If I would create let say a elephant in UF I did not want to hear nice comment about it because it is very hard to create it in UF :) I want to hear nice comment,because that elephant is same great or greater like one made in Photoshop or painted on canvas. We have to remember that UF is like any other electronic medium,that help to creat an art. Of course each of them has specific characters and it is easier to make a elephant in Photoshop,but much harder to create a fractal looking image. And mathematic and fractals algorithms are also in Photoshop,and Bryce,and all electronic artistic medias. We have problem with math at UF,because it is so visual on surface,but I think it is possible to hide it(at least to change some math terms to more friendly names) Another topic was:is it fair to transform UF fractal within other program. Well,what is the diference when I use UF plug-ins(tranformations and to some degree coloring alghoritms),and when I use plug ins in Photoshop.What is the differance when I use twist tranformation,or when I use twist plug-in from PS. It is much easier and with more options to make a frame in PS then in UF. Of course it is not fair when I would post heavy transformed fractal image in fractal gallery,without describtion that it is impossible to make it in UF only and what else was done. Greetings.............Wojtek..........