Thanks for the Info. The animation I have planned is approx 10 minutes in total length but of course this will be many cut sequences put together. (I have wanted to do something like this for a long time.) Im not using ray traced shadows or ray tracing at all for the matter. In fact currently, I have cast shadows turned off. (Not the way I want to leave it but I will have to decided on that based on appearance / render time.) I have two lights for each torch one to light up the torch on the wall the other to make it look like the torch is casting light into the scene. (I will play around with making these flicker in time with the flames as soon as Im happy with the flames animation.) The other lights Im using for fill, as the lights from the torches dont light up the scene very well. I had more but turned them off some where between 45 minutes per frame and 18.5 minutes per frame. I will give the change in the arm swing a shot to see what that looks like. Unfortunately a faster computer is a little way off yet with my current budget constraints but who knows I may win a lottery J. Thanks again, Thorgrim