ICM kicks the soap box, but big_hoovie moved just in time. ;) Thank you all for the responses. Although this is already a posted entry, I may go back and tweak some things later for personal preference, but you all know how that works(40 renders later) I try to improve as render-time goes on. #1 I'm not used to just poser and post work to create an entire enviroment. The backdrop is a photo from a cd and no way to increase the res. Lighting is a trick too, since whatever i use outside of poser has as semi global effect(2D space)next time I'll layer them in. #2 Mike is in the front seat(I can barley see his eyes-guess my gamma is set pretty low) he is reaching backward and overhead,consider hes driving and its fast and bumpy(like me on my cell). Vic is in the back shooting,Yeah I couldn't decide wether to have her sitting or kneeling,(I'll try her sitting for a more stable ride,no freakin seatbelts though!LOL) #3 Aha!, The infamous illusionary gun. :) Yes from a glance it's difficult to see which is which with the hand and the gun.*see pic* I could try to reposition the fingers a bit and then try a different tex on the gun. OK imagine this, you just went swimming, your shorts are wet, you hold your left hand out the window(american side of the road :)) while driving, as your arm gets tired the wind pulls it up and back.(I've lost more shorts that way) Thanks all I appreciate your input. ICM