Yes thanks guys thats exactly everything I am after, and yeah an ortho view. As far as why I want to do that is because I am really a programmer for a living, I play with 3d stuff for fun and I have some freedom on the next project so i am rendering and modeling the entire user interface then will use the images and stuff as buttons in the program. however I need the other view to render so I can render larger buttons and windows without loosing the edges of some objects do to the perspective. As sopme f these windows will need to be rendered at a minimum of 800 X 600 then I have to go in and crop out the pieces I need and so on. Thanks again