For speed, I'd go for p4 any day, for my setup about 6-7 mins, (all but 20 seconds of which was calculating the shadow maps) P4 in P5, 15 mins, (rigged to as P4 like as possible, including "ignore shader trees") 10 mins of which was shadow map. Firefly, gave up timing it. I did it several time to verify a bug somebody reported, (didn't happen to me) went back to look every 30-60 mins or so, (I was watching TV) I knew it was going to take ages, I had everything switched on, so I purposfully didn't bother. You want firefly, you wait. So yeah, the renderer is much, much slower in P5. My Spec: P4 2Ghz 1Gb PC2700 DDR RAM 80Gb drive (20Gb poser partition) Radeon 9700Pro + DX9 drivers & DirectX 9.0 RC0 DVD & CDR/RW XP pro, (SP1 refuses to install) but fully patched appart from that. (No temp files found) Zone Alarm and NAV running in the background. later jb