I used a symlat instead of a terrain and went into the filters option next to the elevation option. I used one of those pics there and then used the arrow next to it to get the add horizontal and add vertical. I played around with these a lot until I got something ok. And I just used a preset terrain material because I had no time to do more. I am currently stuck at the library waiting for a ride home. Its snowing out quite miserably. My meeting got canceled but luckily the library is right across the street. Can't wait to get home and play on bryce some more. (Ithaca, NY) in case anyone cares to know where its snowing right now, :-D Ang