"you can't honestly believe it works any other way. Most films are shot within the first 8 months to a year or so of production and the rest is all post work and special effects." Yes. I believe it IS done a different way. :-) Sorry. It's not ALL because the guys know what they're doing. They are obviously using special equipment. I've seen it in action. I forget what show I was watching. But I saw a guy render a dinosaur with no colors or textures on it. And it blew away anything I see rendered with the junk we use. I didn't realise how defensive you guys would get about your rendering engines. And though this thread isn't quite a flame war. It does have a dark tone to it. So I think we should probably just stop and go back to talking about modeling techniques. And I'll keep wishing for a better rendering engine to myself. :-) ScottA