Well, Scott, I didn't mean to darken your day or anything its just that I've spoken with people in the biz, I've spoken with the software developers themselves and I've yet to hear of folks saying much of anything different. There are a few places that create their own proprietary software, Pixar has Renderman (...but you can buy that), and Dreamworks PDI created their own render engine for ANTS and SHREK but truly, many of the off the shelf items can acheive results similar to those seen in film. Just as an example, WETA harped on and on about their "Massive" program for crowd creation/control. This program is now available to the public. We...I...didn't want to come off as sensitive about my render engine as to be honest, my renderer sucks ass compared to MAX's or LW's or Maya's. Heck, Bryce even has it beat. However, I know that if I took the time to set the scene right and light it properly, I could get a image to match photography. So I'm only trying to express the fact that it's not the program so much as what you do with it and I'm sorry you felt you had to leave the discussion. I would have rather you stayed so I could better understand where you were coming from and what prompted your comment to begin with. I too will leave the discussion now and I hope anyone who drops in after will see the best of it instead of the worst.