Well that is ok Hitpaw is not a part of my system (" You just seem to Pull out extreme samples to block any possible Improvements ") these are samples on how one could Improve there works without having the need to wait until Poser decides integrating Features that might help enhancing Textures and renders, witch I doubt it ever will happen. So actually the Idea was trying to help users with experiences I am having. Not that I am Intending showing my actual workflow on figure creations, even that it could of been quiet helpful for a Poser community witch is slowly fading away. 

I'v seen many in here in the past that were trying to share a little there workflows and how one could do Poser works in a more productive way rather then having to many efforts on there creations, Fact is that it ends with big rejections and fears having to go away from there habits that are almost 2 decades old.

Not even the new features from Poser 2014 have ever been used because of these problems so creators end up keeping these as there little secrets." So see I just Placed two samples or three I think in total ", Not reviling my actual built to see the reactions, and they are how I was expecting them, was hoping a little that this poser community might of changed a little having better ears for the new since Poser is also getting Newer, but sadly this has not happen and probably never will. 

Sometimes I learn In here some features that are quiet helpful for a better workflow but these are quiet rare as the ones who could give really good advice have also experienced these issues, tracking off as these do not really deserve help of Improvements in figure creations.

The mentality in here: If a Painter is painting a Portrait or what he is seeing, Painting a repro or wat so ever it is ok. You would even hang it in your room. But dare if the Painter would do it in 3D Poser, you would scream " Theft, Ripp, read guidelines " even that the creators have built it up from scratch and just took a template of what has been seen using tools that are given, just like the Painter uses Paint and pencil.

So asking you, is this mentality going to bring you any further? are you expecting that one who might have some advices that could bring you any further will really be willing to share ?  On my side I realized again that it is not the time jet, may be sometime in the future but after all these years I sure doubt it ever will happen.   

Jup I Read the guidelines, the ones you have posted are the ones of Usage of there site :) there is a big difference. I cant Imagine that Disney, Lucas Warner etc would be using it if they could take there rights :) Or you just had a Look at the Android app and online Image creation guidelines. but not the Image enlargement filters. It does not matter, You can use the old fashion way others will Improve. Fearing the new does not bring you any further, No Improvement's no sales that is the rule.

All you say gives me rather the Impression of a fear not being able keeping up, at the end you for sure will have to find a good solution if you want to redistribute your works or get a little attention on them, no way around making your works way better. Others will that's for sure :)    

@ Charly_99

You were a absolutely great help, you just gave me the solution how to fix allot of problems in Poser SF, especially the issues with Veins that I finally could fix.

This is the latest Poser creation I am working on and really cool I managed getting these arm veins just right also many other details. Thanks again for your great help .... 

@ shvrdavid

The applications above are local you have no access to the world wide web to get Images they do not have access to yours, very simple, a tool like a filter in photoshop. you can choose either grant access to your works for there learning purpose, or not . You only work with your Private Renders Images and you sure do not lose your rights. else it would be that even if you use a photoshop filter you would loose any rights on your works! These tools have direct filter plugins in Photoshop, no way for them to access your works, you do not upload anything :)

Btw Making works based on a 3rd Party doll you loose all the rights on your works  :)  Go once through the guidelines of Daz ....  I wonder if La femme has a guideline that allows making Derivative work on and with her, if it is written that you are allowed to sell derivative works from such a doll ?! Or is it so that it is written that it is not allowed ?! Think about that one.

I guess that all this In here and at Daz are the main purposes why Creators slowly are running away looking for better places for there Art.

Topaz or HitPaw for instance,

are good AI tools that one can use in combination with poser these also work locally with models that get downloaded after install, here you do not need to worry. They give a good result scaling up your renders or if you want to enhance your older textures. At this point no need to go into deep technical matter and you can work offline. Might even remove the need having a poser integration! there are also some other programs but I think these have lifetime licenses ....

@parkdalegardener

Guess this would be your language explaining a Diffusion  " Model " in short :)

" Diffusion models work by training an artificial neural network on images and their text descriptions. These are computer systems vaguely inspired by biological neural networks "

But most people would not be able understanding the signification of this text ! same like placing a mathematical Formula to explain the algorithms

Oohh thank you very  much, now this sure is helpful ! just saving up a screenshot. It is looking quiet simple so for sure it will not be causing allot of efforts, might just make a empty Mt loader for future setups .... Coool ! Thank you :) 

Meanwhile I got my self a local Photo AI tool to scale up the skin maps, can enhance, sharpen, scale up and allot more, it works a little like a simplified Photoshop filter and does a quiet good job, a good thing if Maps are blurry have pixels or are to small, There are quiet a few out there that can be used locally, Topaz or HitPaw for instance, these are affordable tools that can come in handy for certain enhancements. :) 

Yes I know about that place, they have really good assets and no doubt about the amazing material tiles they have to offer, still you are making awesome renders with these in Poser, I am not that great in texturing, well can't have it all, just to little time. so great respect to the ones who have the abilities of using such materials in a way like you just did :) I often want to get such a realistic metallic surface for armors that models wear, mostly it gets me to the point pulling out my hair, guess it is the main reason why I shave them off regularly. I can only say Fabulous job, sure mean it ....

.

I sure do understand the point about renders using 3D assets, but also have to try giving a understanding for the AI that is coming in really fast, not limiting my self there as for sure they are going to adapt all the rights else economy might stand still. Serious AI programs are learning algorithm's not like most think, it grabs Images on the world wide web rips them apart and puts them back together, this is simple mind thinking to be able giving a explanation on how it might be working. 

A good AI collects Information then it builds up a so called model, you can compare it with a mathematical function of your brain, but they call that file a Model witch is one of many learning algorithm's comparable to a .Json file Not a Image it self, the learning process with given Information generates a sort of Intelligent Filter, just like you use in Photoshop just that it is a learning filter. You can also compare it with a encyclopedia of Information.

So In theory human kind is creating a big brain, not local like most might imagine, there is no shut down trigger on one place it is working like a assimilations of all computers that are online collecting Information, the integration into your system has already been done, there is no turning back on this one, the AI models are often generated automatically on your system that will be to send and receive the appropriate Information's. Actually most digital devices are getting integrated.

The only thing that needs to be adapted is the rights but this for sure is going to be solved quickly as none of these features have been locked until now, so what remains is either one starts learning to live with it, learn how to use it, or shut down any Digital device.

But to make it understandable it is not a rip of from renders or pictures throughout the Web, they are individual models created with Information's that the Users are giving, it is how the AI is learning . 

Ok it is a little like the Terminator Movie, the beginning, where mankind is trying to play god and will loose control in one way or another scary it is but nothing we really can change about this. It is still up to the individual to decide weather to use it or not atm. Later it will be a full integration of your digital tool there is no way around it and none will ask anymore where the AI has gotten the info to make the models as this for sure can not be controlled by Humans.

So this is the simple explanation about the basic function, Immoral or not it is already a part of the whole, but basically this long text is just to explain that the generated Image is not a rip of an Image, but it is a model generated from Information's that the users have given. Same like a Homan that grows and learns with Information he is receiving to accomplish a task.  That is why it is called AI, non Humanoid learning being.  

Just Imagine as a extreme ... you produce a render with La Femme, a doll package, a Pose package. you make a Print, on that Print you claim full ownership and sell it for a million on a auction .... I bet that at this point some will start to sue you :) as your render license in most cases is just for Personal usage and so is your render and Print, you just are not the Intellectual owner unless you created it all by your self or purchased full owner and usage rights.

Actually a big game company that is working on serious base will sure buy a Model but they will by the full ownership, avoiding later issues. If you buy a Licence to make a render then you are allowed to use the model in the render but you do not own the model, causing that you can't claim full rights on the Image you produced, you might own the story but not the character, at this point it is difficult having your Image registrated under full ownership in a copyright office. One might ask, who is that character, your response, Victoria, question, whom belongs Victoria? Sure the render is yours, your collage,  but you are not the intellectual owner of the whole. The more premade stuff you use the less it is that you are the legitime creator. Unless the creator gives unrestricted permissions of usage on derivative works and usage of the Models. but sure is not the case with stuff you buy for Poser DS.

If you go hardcore, you use La Femme make a render with her and name her "Aisha" is it then Aisha or is it La Femme you used ? So no matter how many Morph Packages you will create to sell, no matter how you will name these it will always be la femme and the Intellectual owner of this character will always be the creator, no matter how and for what you will use it. It will just be a derivative of the base in witch you only own a basic Licence of usage. 

A simple question ? What is it that you really own on your Computer ? Do you actually own any part of it ? I guess not, sometimes I even wonder if we own our own flesh or if someone is calming rights on it :)

JustBeCause posted at 1:18 PM Wed, 27 December 2023 - #4479657

Wonder when the FBI will put an arrest order to Microsoft or Google !   

You are confusing creating the tool, versus the legalities of using it. 

Besides:

There is not a big difference of using a 3rd Party model for a render if you have not completely made it your self or using a AI for a render that is using models to generate it. for both you pay to use the models, at the end you do not own them unless you made the models your self, even if using a 3rd Poser DS model to morph or texture it, you just made a derived art on a base, the original creator keeps all rights. In theory you have more rights on a AI made product then on a 3D render in witch you do not own any of the used models. But in both cases AI or a Poser/DS  render with models created by 3rd party you will not be able to put a full copyright on the renders. if it is a comic you can place a copyright on your text, or your signature is copyrighted but the render unless you have created it all by your self, is almost no chance to registrate it under your copyright ownership. There is somewhere a text that is saying that DAZ is legitimate owner of any Derivative creation made with Millenniums or Genesis, so even there it is impossible Placing a full copyright ownership on any creations based on these figures!      

Concluding because both way's  are unique derivative by a minimum of 5% it is a legal creation and not theft, but you are not the copyright holder and will never be. Not possible to make a registration of full ownership.

DeeceyArt posted at 2:47 PM Wed, 27 December 2023 - #4479661

@JustBeCause

you said:

you do not have to run Bump maps through the AI that is not a good Idea normally you just do it on the Diffuse map, maps that affect the high detail of your render. Getting a good diffuse map with loads of thin details will also solve allot of problems with the bump map that might not even be necessary any longer, the skin does not need to be bumpy and look like it been hit by micro meteorites, Mostly an issue on releases that the artist is trying to add details with bump because he's diffuse map is just flat with only minor skin details.

Baked in highlights and shadows will not respond correctly to lighting. For that you either need sculpted in detail (which more than likely will need subdivision), or really good bump/displacement/normal maps. Depending on diffuse alone will not be adequate for a physically-based render engine.

Personally I do not use the AI Online features I run it locally with AI models that are local on my machine, no need to grab references or models from the Net. Online AI engines are rather built to generate changes on your Image with words that cause a Algorithmen adding details from other references to your Image up to completely changing the original, this also might not be very helpful for making 3D maps :) 

Well that is the point Poser/DS customers will sure not be willing to spend 200$ for limited credits using a AI to upscale there renders , unless it is for professional use. So there comes the Creator that if possible finds good solutions so that there is no need of upscaling the product he is selling, offering a product with satisfying details for the end-user.  

shvrdavid posted at 12:46 PM Wed, 27 December 2023 - #4479653

Saying that AI would be a useful tool for creators brings up the obvious.

You can not claim anything you created with AI is yours, or sell it, give it away, etc. 

So this is a very slippery slope. So slippery in fact, that some obviously will use and do just that. And are justifying doing exactly that. Think about that for a bit.....

It is no different than taking a game ripped mesh and textures, modifying them, and rigging it for Poser and selling it as your own creation.... It doesn't matter what you end up with after when doing so, it is still based on an illegal derivative. Making it illegal, and stolen work from the start......

Opinions don't equal legal, they never have either. Using generative AI to make content is not legal, in multiple ways.

This thread is slowly turning into a perfect "Here is how you could get away with it", "And who cares if it isn't legal...." example...

Which in itself, violates the TOS...............

Tread carefully on this one....... 

As long as you use AI like common PS filters you are on the secure side. If it were your way then the whole Internet is Violating the TOS ..... Look around you, they would have to shot down any Artist sites on the Internet for Investigations and now even worse just because of that Illegal AI !!! Wonder when the FBI will put an arrest order to Microsoft or Google !