Well, jcbwms, I think we've run out of things to argue about :) It's been a pleasure.

(I'll just add that I said "none of which explain why I should pay more to download Poser 6", not "why I do have to...";) )

But the irony of all this is that, so far, Digital River are the only ones agreeing that I should be able to pay in $US!

When I first told them I was an Australian wanting to pay in $US but couldn't, they said "The error you are reporting indicates a missing or corrupt online store cookie." No doubt a standard reply to cover a lot of problems, but when I followed up that allowing cookies didn't solve the problem, they sent me the direct link to the US store and said to use that!

Unfortunately, when I try to purchase it says "The products you have selected are not available in your area." (This may also be a problem if someone buys it on my behalf. I may be locked out of downloading it if I'm not from the right area.)

Wouldn't it be funny if my whining pointed out a circumstance DR had overlooked...and actually changed something!

*Extract:
"So if I say "I believe God exists" it means I'm not certain God exists?"

Comment:

Yes.*

No.

In this case my belief would be my "mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something", not my uncertainty about something.

I make the assumption that when people tell me they "believe" something, they "have confidence in the truth or value" of the claim. You obviously choose to interpret them as being less certain, "to have an opinion; think". Yes, there is ambiguity. (quotes from dictionary.com)

Comment:
No, it is not hard to educate oneself. The effort would provide you with benefits above and beyond the simple purchase of software online.

Actually I have studied most of the subjects you mentioned, as part of my Degree and my Advanced Certificate in Business Programming. Must've missed the one subject that explains this particular price discrimination... But anyone who says surviving the boredom of economic theory is "not hard" is a better man than me ;)

So, thus far, we have dealt with several potential reasons for the additional cost, all of which are representative, and none of them have anything to do whatsoever with the trade agreement.

...and none of which explain why I should pay more to download Poser 6.

1 - Currency exchange rates
I am asking, nay, begging to pay in $US. Let me and my bank worry about these costs.

2 - infrastructure costs
Same for me to download as anyone else.

3 - 3rd Party fees
Isn't it the same 3rd party we're all dealing with? If the discrimination comes only from them then it's costing them sales and it's a bad business choice.

4 - currency handling costs
See 1.

5 - UK customs rules...
Speaking of education, Australia is not part of the UK ;)

I'm hearing lots of theories and waffle, but I'm still waiting for the smoking gun. Just itemize the price of the software itself (the same for everyone), plus the other costs that bring it up to the price Australians are being charged for the download. Not economic theory, not hypotheses, not "potential reasons", not vague, unidentified "other ones as well", but the actual, factual costs involved in the specific purchase I'm talking about.

Just show me what they are and I'll be happy to pay them.

Earilier in the thread you speak of never lying down in the face of unfairness.
I'll respond to that with pick your battles carefully.

Hey, all I'm doing is typing words to try and make a point, it's not that much effort. Trust me, I have enough in reserve in case I need to fight any real "battles". And it's kind of fun to spar...except with XENOPHONZ, who's just a compassionless NeoCon who can't keep to the point ;)

"Af [sic] for saying that you called them a thief -- yes. And I can do so"
I was just taking the piss. Actually, you didn't:

"It might also educate you on the potential trouble that could be garnered by calling Digital River a crook in a semi-public record..."

Doesn't accuse me of anything directly at all :)

LOL! But how can that be? Wouldn't they be buying it at the $US price?

Forgot to address this bit:

She said "I believe", not "I am certain". Indicates she wasn't certain she had.

So if I say "I believe God exists" it means I'm not certain God exists?

It might also educate you on the potential trouble that could be garnered by calling Digital River a crook in a semi-public record goverend by laws of a location that takes such things seriously.

Now you read carefully. I posed a hypothetical about myself: "If I hire a crook to sell my wares, I'm still responsible." Any other inference is yours. Hmm, but you have publically accused me of calling them crooks... ;)

"..it would require the individuals involved to actually educate themselves on global trade issues... Not hard, but obviously beyond the abilties of those complaining."
"Seek out classes in global econmoics and marketing, information technology infrastructure, and business history.... when you've finished them, turn to macroeconomic prinicples."

That's what you call "not hard", just to buy a piece of software? Somehow I think if the inflated price was justified, it would be easier to prove than that.

"...direct your requests and comments to a more proper location (such as the customer service department of DR)"

I am doing that, but I'm getting more response here :)

"...Your particular interpretation of the fees being applied is wrong. A Tax or Duty is applied under Law. In other words, the governments state these things need to be charged. A difference in price based on currency rates is not the same thing. Grasp that concept. It will do you a world of good."

Thanks for the condescension, but currency rates are not an issue to CL if I pay in $US.

"...it would require the individuals involved to actually educate themselves on global trade issues for small software firms dealing through third party fulfilment systems."

You point me to somewhere that my feeble little Australian mind can be "educated" with proof that it costs CL more for me to download a copy of Poser 6 than it does for an American, and I'll gladly admit I'm wrong. (And I don't mean passing the blame to Digital River. If I hire a crook to sell my wares, I'm still responsible.)

"Guess what? Life is not fair. Deal with it."

Hmm, I could use that explanation to justify racism, sexism...

"...factors as time of sale and location of either buyer or seller or whether there was a middleman involved or tax/duty/customs rates..."

Holy cow... how many times do I have to make this point: There are NO tax/duty/customs rates inflating the price, due to our FTA. And there is no middleman when downloading from the company.

"If someone else saved a nickle...the screaming rises to a fevered pitch"

Another strawman. We're not talking about "a nickle", we're talking enough to buy a DVD player.

And I gather you'll be happy to pay the extra 50% for tastiger's program ;)

And we Australians would really appreciate it if others would stop lumping us in with Europe.

""WTF are you talking about??? They'll make as much money from me as any American."

Not at the higher tax rates overseas, they aren't."

This thread started by pointing out that our FTA means THERE ARE NO ADDITIONAL TAXES OR DUTIES added to the US prices.

Come on, admit it...you're a CL stooge. You're as good as they are at completely side-stepping the issue, creating strawmen, and waving a hand in the air as an explanation.

"There are no "injustices" here."

No? I'll start selling my software to Americans for twice the price as everyone else. You think any Americans might consider that unjust?

"Curious Labs isn't in business to lose money. And they aren't constituted as a public charity, either."

WTF are you talking about??? They'll make as much money from me as any American. Are Americans getting pubic charity?

"This has gotta (sic) be the 300th or so thread started on the issue of "overpricing" for international sales..."

Well, injustices don't get fixed when you lay down and take it.

"In spite of the protests over "fairness" -- Curious Labs simply cannot afford to sell their product at a loss. Which is what some are demanding that they do."

Who's demanding that? Downloading the program from their servers to my computer doesn't cost them more than for anyone else to do it. The reason this topic is going to keep coming up is because it is always dismissed with strawman arguments.

Speaking of warez, you might want to do something about this guy:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=90723&item=7141654659&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Up until now, when I see Poser warez on ebay, I email ebay to get them to take it down. But with CL's current attitude, I think I'll stop doing them this favour.

Speaking of warez, you might want to do something about this guy:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=90723&item=7141654659&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

"Tyd2, I believe I did answer your IM's and in one, tried to explain that Australia falls into the UK Digital River facility which meant US payment was not possible. I apologize if I didn't make that completely clear."

With all due respect Katherine, you DID NOT reply to my IM (yes, that's IM singular). I have received 2 IMs total since being registered on this forum. One says "Curious_Labs has received your message.", the other is someone asking me about a Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

"The way Digital River sets territories has to do with where they ship from."

This makes no sense with downloadable content. What stops anyone, anywhere in the world, downloading from the same server, meaning server costs etc would be the same? Maybe Digital River should take into account their own range of services and not be back in the 20th century when all products needed to be shipped physically.

Regardless, there are plenty of other software companies that can sell downloadable software to me for the same price as US buyers. I was at goCyberLink.com yersterday and they actually gave me the option to pay in US$ or AU$...at the correct exchange rate! If CL/Digital River can't do this it can only be due to bad business practices.

Never before have I tried so hard to GIVE A BUSINESS MY MONEY! But I don't want to be robbed, and forcing me to hand over more than a US customer when there is no justifiable reason IS robbery.

If this is the way honest customers are treated, it's no wonder so many people just resort to warez.

"Frankly I am not happy about free trade anyway. It has just caused Americans jobs and put our economy in a real tail spin."

Hey, I'm with you. "Free Trade" helps the citizens of no country, only the corporations.

But I'm talking about CL exporting without additional costs to international buyers, which should actually help them get more sales (their country of origin aside).

Our FTA actually means we're not adding additional costs at this end, so the software should be the same price.

Curious Labs, don't treat us like small-time nobodies you can just lump in with Europe. I mean, right here in Adelaide, South Australia we have a visual FX house that worked on movies such as Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, Batman Begins, Sky Captain and the World of Tommorrow, and Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire: Rising Sun Pictures, http://www.rsp.com.au/