Qaz:

Deecey posted at 9:58AM Tue, 19 February 2019 - #4346517

qaz posted at 9:57AM Tue, 19 February 2019 - #4346497

"With LaFemme you can just select the eye and move/scale it wherever you want. How can people actually be complaining about this?"

I'm not complaining about this. The fact is you have far more control on creating face morphs in an external program. Creating face shapes by pulling and stretching would be fine if the figure was sophisticated enough to know where the underlying bones are. Without that you are going to get major distortion of the geometry / texture map. It's great for small movements no question.

Indeed your user manual suggests using the Dev Rig to create character morphs. That of course will result in the eyes being out of place. It is not satisfactory to create a face and then apply eye translation in the figure.

Your approach to export the eyes and mouth parts after you translate them is the solution. The part I was waiting to hear back from Nerd is which export options you can use to export all the parts at once and reimport them back all together, instead of exporting the parts one at a time.

In the future, when you create a morph in an external program, here is what you do. Start with the LaFemme1.OBJ in the geometries folder (use a copy so you don't overwrite the original one). Bring the entire OBJ into your modeling program. Morph the face, and ALSO move the eyes and mouth parts into position in your MODELING program.

Then import it all into the dev rig as a full body morph and do the "match centers to morph" thing.

For the record, it's perfectly OK to import a full body morph into the base figure, but the main reason we recommend using the dev rig is because your custom morph or morphs will be the only ones listed when you create your morph injection, and there won't be any other morphs listed to make it confusing as to which one to select.

Ok, thanks for being civil. You do realise, that your suggestion is the exact opposite of what BH is screaming for me to do. Your suggestion is EXACTLY the way I have done it. However you don't need to translate the teeth and tongue in an outside program, as that is simple to do in Poser. So my question therefore was isn't there also a dial for the eyes ? Reading between the lines, it looks like the answer is no. Is that correct ?

Qaz:

Glitterati3D posted at 9:41AM Tue, 19 February 2019 - #4346506

Perhaps qaz and others don't understand that a number of advancements have been made in Poser11 to make creation easier and faster.

La Femme was created to highlight the P11 changes and bring everyone on board with advancements in the software (you know, kinda like DAZ does with new Genesis iterations).

If you want to keep creating morphs like you did with V4, refusing to take advantage of software enhancements, please do so. But, it's like the folks who simply refuse to create character skins which take advantage of P11/Superfly, or clothing creators who insist on using ghost bones for skirt movement instead of learning how to rig to the floor in those skirts.

Please, go right ahead and stay in the Poser 7 era of rigging and content creation. But, in the meantime, don't try to shoehorn those of us who like the advancements and enhancements and intend to make use of them.

There is no excuse with the aggression floating around. I asked a civil question, and I expect a civil answer. I haven't told anyone how they should be doing this content creation. Of course I know how this stuff is supposed to work. I tried it and it didn't work for me. Its not precise enough and there is too much distortion. I could show you, but I'm sure that it would fall on deaf ears. What exactly is the procedure for creating new content then ? We keep asking. I'm pretty sure you don't know because BH has come up with his view, which is completely contradicted by Deecey. BH - You don't do ANYTHING in an outside program. Deecey - you do EVERYTHING in an outside program. Confusing isn't it ?

Deecey:

qaz posted at 9:57AM Tue, 19 February 2019 - #4346497

"With LaFemme you can just select the eye and move/scale it wherever you want. How can people actually be complaining about this?"

I'm not complaining about this. The fact is you have far more control on creating face morphs in an external program. Creating face shapes by pulling and stretching would be fine if the figure was sophisticated enough to know where the underlying bones are. Without that you are going to get major distortion of the geometry / texture map. It's great for small movements no question.

Indeed your user manual suggests using the Dev Rig to create character morphs. That of course will result in the eyes being out of place. It is not satisfactory to create a face and then apply eye translation in the figure.

Your approach to export the eyes and mouth parts after you translate them is the solution. The part I was waiting to hear back from Nerd is which export options you can use to export all the parts at once and reimport them back all together, instead of exporting the parts one at a time.

In the future, when you create a morph in an external program, here is what you do. Start with the LaFemme1.OBJ in the geometries folder (use a copy so you don't overwrite the original one). Bring the entire OBJ into your modeling program. Morph the face, and ALSO move the eyes and mouth parts into position in your MODELING program.

Then import it all into the dev rig as a full body morph and do the "match centers to morph" thing.

For the record, it's perfectly OK to import a full body morph into the base figure, but the main reason we recommend using the dev rig is because your custom morph or morphs will be the only ones listed when you create your morph injection, and there won't be any other morphs listed to make it confusing as to which one to select.

Blackhearted:

Ok, look:

All this geometry is packed into a small area around her eye. You can move it all in either ZBrush, or any app capable of editing .obj meshes. All you have to do is load the .obj from Runtime/Geometries/RPublishing/LaFemme/LaFemme1.obj

But you can't just go moving stuff around indiscriminately. If you move the eye out of position you will need to make sure you are not morphing it out of round or it will not move properly inside the head. You will need to move the eyelids to perfectly match the new eye position. You will need to make sure the tearline lines up perfectly on these new eyelids, and then you will need to make sure that all three eyelash layers all match up perfectly. This will usually require moving them vertice by vertice.

My question is WHY on earth would anyone want to go through that nightmare when we have simplified the entire process for you as much as humanly $%@$ing possible. All you need to do is select the eyeball and use the translate dials to move it to the exact position you want and everything will follow and line up seamlessly, and the eye control chips and look/blink dials will all work perfectly.

Again, what you are trying to do defies logic and at this point you are derailing a thread with this question and it's been answered over, and over, and over again. Please start a thread in the Poser Technical forum if you want to discuss this further because you are literally monopolizing a general thread with an 'issue' that doesn't affect 99.999999% of users.

Glitterati3d

Perhaps qaz and others don't understand that a number of advancements have been made in Poser11 to make creation easier and faster.

La Femme was created to highlight the P11 changes and bring everyone on board with advancements in the software (you know, kinda like DAZ does with new Genesis iterations).

If you want to keep creating morphs like you did with V4, refusing to take advantage of software enhancements, please do so. But, it's like the folks who simply refuse to create character skins which take advantage of P11/Superfly, or clothing creators who insist on using ghost bones for skirt movement instead of learning how to rig to the floor in those skirts.

Please, go right ahead and stay in the Poser 7 era of rigging and content creation. But, in the meantime, don't try to shoehorn those of us who like the advancements and enhancements and intend to make use of them.

Blackhearted:

BTW can you just start a thread on this in the Poser Technical Forum please?

This thread was moving along quite well helping people with real questions and usage tips. Now the last half has been derailed with a bizarre request to 'explain how to break her eyes', which has actually been answered half a dozen times.

Blackhearted:

Why on earth would you want eyes floating outside of the face?

But if you do, just take the LaFemme1.obj from Runtime/Geometries/RPublishing/LaFemme into your 3D app of choice, move the eye wherever you want, and save the obj. Then import that as a full body morph.

I just cant fathom why you or these 'others' would want to do things the hard way when the easy way is literally one click.

Qaz:

Blackhearted posted at 6:52AM Tue, 19 February 2019 - #4346498

qaz posted at 6:20AM Tue, 19 February 2019 - #4346497

"With LaFemme you can just select the eye and move/scale it wherever you want. How can people actually be complaining about this?"

I'm not complaining about this. The fact is you have far more control on creating face morphs in an external program. Creating face shapes by pulling and stretching would be fine if the figure was sophisticated enough to know where the underlying bones are. Without that you are going to get major distortion of the geometry / texture map. It's great for small movements no question.

Indeed your user manual suggests using the Dev Rig to create character morphs. That of course will result in the eyes being out of place. It is not satisfactory to create a face and then apply eye translation in the figure.

Please don't declare your individual opinions as 'facts'.

I've been morphing for 20 years, I don't need to be schooled in morphing. Being able to just move the eyes around and have the entire face geometry adapt seamlessly means that anyone, including complete Poser newbies without access to external software, can create complex face morphs. With other figures either the eye translate dials are completely hidden, or if you try to move the eyes you get this:

imgpsh_fullsize.jpg

Like I said earlier if I were making a face morphs with eye movement I would just move them with the included dials, save the dial movement to an INJ pose, and end up with a character with moved eyes that are done in a non-destructive way and the end user can then tweak them more to their liking.

In the past most custom morphers simply avoided the eye area like the plague since it's a daunting task and takes time and experience to make sure you aren't #%@$ing up the eye geometry or morphing the eyeballs out of round. Now you have the ability to simply move the eyes into any position you like with a dial and someone is actually complaining about this. It's mindblowing.

Again not complaining. "custom morphers simply avoided the eye area like the plague " - that wouldn't be me then The picture you have shown above is exactly what I want. Actually its not just me, there are a number who want this. Is this possible in La Femme ?

Blackhearted:

qaz posted at 6:20AM Tue, 19 February 2019 - #4346497

"With LaFemme you can just select the eye and move/scale it wherever you want. How can people actually be complaining about this?"

I'm not complaining about this. The fact is you have far more control on creating face morphs in an external program. Creating face shapes by pulling and stretching would be fine if the figure was sophisticated enough to know where the underlying bones are. Without that you are going to get major distortion of the geometry / texture map. It's great for small movements no question.

Indeed your user manual suggests using the Dev Rig to create character morphs. That of course will result in the eyes being out of place. It is not satisfactory to create a face and then apply eye translation in the figure.

Please don't declare your individual opinions as 'facts'.

I've been morphing for 20 years, I don't need to be schooled in morphing. Being able to just move the eyes around and have the entire face geometry adapt seamlessly means that anyone, including complete Poser newbies without access to external software, can create complex face morphs. With other figures either the eye translate dials are completely hidden, or if you try to move the eyes you get this:

Like I said earlier if I were making a face morphs with eye movement I would just move them with the included dials, save the dial movement to an INJ pose, and end up with a character with moved eyes that are done in a non-destructive way and the end user can then tweak them more to their liking.

In the past most custom morphers simply avoided the eye area like the plague since it's a daunting task and takes time and experience to make sure you aren't #%@$ing up the eye geometry or morphing the eyeballs out of round. Now you have the ability to simply move the eyes into any position you like with a dial and someone is actually complaining about this. It's mindblowing.

Qaz:

"With LaFemme you can just select the eye and move/scale it wherever you want. How can people actually be complaining about this?"

I'm not complaining about this. The fact is you have far more control on creating face morphs in an external program. Creating face shapes by pulling and stretching would be fine if the figure was sophisticated enough to know where the underlying bones are. Without that you are going to get major distortion of the geometry / texture map. It's great for small movements no question.

Indeed your user manual suggests using the Dev Rig to create character morphs. That of course will result in the eyes being out of place. It is not satisfactory to create a face and then apply eye translation in the figure.

Blackhearted:

Are you having a problem exporting your face morph with moved eyes?

You may be going about it wrong. Instead of trying to move the eyes and spawn a morph with a new face geometry, just move the eyes with translations and add those translations to your face injection pose. That will accomplish it in a non-destructive way.

Blackhearted:

qaz posted at 5:08AM Tue, 19 February 2019 - #4346490

Therefore as shown above, the eyes are now the wrong scale and in the wrong position.The other thing is that as shown by your picture - it distorts the face to pull the eyes around.

Of course it moves the skin around the eye, otherwise the eye would pop out of her head O_o

I moved the eyes 3" from their original position just to illustrate a point that it can be done, noone has eyes that far outside their head.

Why on earth would you want to move the eye, and have the skin around it not move. That makes absolutely no sense. The entire point is that you can adjust the eye depth/distance/etc and face and geometry around the eye (eyelids, eyelashes, tearline, lacrimals, etc) will adapt to the new position seamlessly. This was not possible on V4 at all, nor on other figures I'm aware of. Any morphs that involved the eye area were a nightmare to create since you had to pay attention to the fact that every tearline/eyelash/etc vertice lined up perfectly afterwards and you didn't accidentally morph the eyes out of round or it was a disaster. With LaFemme you can just select the eye and move/scale it wherever you want. How can people actually be complaining about this?

Qaz:

Blackhearted posted at 4:52AM Tue, 19 February 2019 - #4346488

You can move/translate the eyes using either the included morphs, or just by selecting them and changing the depth, height, and shift dials -- which also move all of the other eye geometry like the eyelids, lashes, tearline, etc. Everything works afterwards including the eye chips, they're just a little bit offset since they don't move with the morph.

You can move the eyes 4" outside of her head without any morphs and the chips will still work exactly as intended.

eyemove.jpg

Moving the eyes from their place in an external program is a very bad idea on any figure since then you will need to adjust the entire face geometry to match. Not sure why on earth anyone would even consider doing that rather than just... selecting the eye and moving it with the dial, the way it was intended.

Yes, as I said, the face chips still work. The point is that the face geometry has already been changed whenever you export the face object after adjusting the built in face morphs, or if you use an external program.. Therefore as shown above, the eyes are now the wrong scale and in the wrong position.The other thing is that as shown by your picture - it distorts the face to pull the eyes around.

Love the eye plus eyelid dials. You get a very expressive look. Femme eyeb copy.jpg

Qaz:

RobZhena posted at 7:00PM Sun, 17 February 2019 - #4346372

@qaz You have to right click on the arrow to the right of the morph to get the menu ith match centers to morph.

Thanks I've sorted that now. It still didnt work, but someone has told me it doesnt until you save the injection. Haven't tried that yet.

RobZhena:

@qaz You have to right click on the arrow to the right of the morph to get the menu ith match centers to morph.