That's ok. The turbulence was wrong in the earlier render anyway because I hadn't added circular wave forms. So, the image as a whole didn't make sense. And, probably if I were better at lighting, I'd be able to find some subtle way to highlight the water flow ... but hey, I'm still learning.

In the end it's the same shape, but the cost is a factor to some. If you can model and object in Bryce and save $900 on Rhino, that is something to consider. Not everyone at Renderocity (or in the Bryce forum for that matter) is a professional graphics artist. In fact, I would hazard to guess that the larger portion of those on the forum are hobbiests who don't even plan to become professionals. I'm sorry that you pros out there are under so much stress that you can't enjoy your craft anymore. That's sad. Of course you all have to save time -- you are under the gun -- but when someone asks the question "why don't you model that in Bryce?", the appropriate answers are (1) I'm a pro and don't have the time and have access to something else that allows me to do it faster, or (2) Because I don't know how to do it in Bryce and do know how to do it in the other program ... not (I submit) (3) because it's a pain in the rear to do it in Bryce, or (4) it can't be done in Bryce. Those last two are strictly opinions about the program and don't really answer the question. Further, for anyone new to Bryce, that kind of response can really be discouraging. I see all sorts of stuff posted as "Bryce" that has very little else of Bryce other than Bryce used to render it. No Bryce modelling, no Bryce terrains, sometimes not even a Bryce sky .... but it's posted in the Bryce section as a Bryce image. Now some people will credit the fact that nothing but the render was done in Bryce ... but then I still find myself wondering why they would post it in that category. Does the render alone qualify it as such? As mentioned, I have already ordered Rhino because I would like to see how good it is. I have owned and used other 3D modelling programs in the past, and often find myself going back to Bryce because I find it very straightforward and easy to use. Plus, I enjoy the mathematics of Bryce modelling. Will I give up modelling in Bryce just because I own Rhino? I doubt it. We'll see, but I really doubt it.

Hmmm, well, I downloaded your free obp without going to the Geocities page and/or viewing their adds. I did it from within the Renderocity Forum with a simple right click. I have also linked directly to images I've posted at Geocities, had lots of people view them, and never got shut down. So, perhaps I couldn't do what I did, but I did it anyway ... and do it all the time.

I hear you. My Geocities page is currently filled with my trip diary from the "Great American Roadtrip" (April-May this year). I need to get the page updated and cleaned up a bit. I'm not certain if Geocities shuts the page down if you do the download from Renderocity. I don't think that type of access registers as a "hit" for them. But then, I could be wrong.

Thank you so much. As I look at so much of my early stuff, the biggest problem I see is that the textures are "plastic" ... no life in them. That, and my lighting still sucks, but I'm working on it. It's sort of fun to take my old stuff and try to inject some life into it. I'm practically living in the DTE these days.

Or alternately, right click on the link in the first post and "save target as" .... same thing. Whenever I go to a download link that doesn't come up as a page in my browser ... the next step is to try the right click method on the link.

All anyone has to do in order to download your file posted on Geocities is to right click on the link at Renderocity and "save target as". It will immediately download without actually having to go to the Geocities page (which won't show up anyway).

It looks like you are awful close to a solution on your own. That looks quite good. Some more detail in your waterfall terrain would be good (what resolution did you start with?). Also, maybe a tiny bit of mist at the intersection of the waterfall with the water.

Yes, it's also nice that they either work for companies that can afford to spend a kazillion dollars on high end programs and/or can take the cost of the programs off on their taxes. If people like that are using Bryce, it is almost certainly only as a renderer, and perhaps for textures. However, a lot of the people who use the Bryce Forum are just starting out or have used Bryce for a while and want to get better at Bryce. While it certainly doesn't hurt to be told there are high end programs out there that can do something difficult quickly, it doesn't do the people who want to use Bryce any good to be told that something can't be done (or is too hard to be done) in Bryce when it is neither impossible or difficult. Wouldn't you agree that the place to discuss a great new Rhino model would be the Rhino Forum?? Meanwhile, back in Bryce, I am making some octagons with filleted edges to save in my object library.

Oh Quest, you did miss some good times. Bryce Camps are a hoot!! (And you learn a lot too.) I hope there will be another ... maybe not, but you never know. There's nothing quite like being in a room with 30 other Brycers (for about 12-18 hours each day) doing renders, learning from the staff and from each other (Ken Musgrave giving Mojoworld demos in the evening). I went to Denver and Sedona and all I can say is FUN!!! (And the best part is getting to ride in the black helicopters.)

Yes, Erlik, after reading a bit on Rhino (as noted above) I figured out that was a rounded edge (or radiused ... whichever term you like). It would be possible to do the base in Bryce with that effect, but it's all sort of moot anyway. My basic point (and I do have one) is that not everyone can afford to go the easy route and that should never force them to cramp their creativity. If Brycers (who are only using Bryce, for whatever reason) think they are limited to the models they can buy or get for free, then their scenes will suffer for it. Don't get me wrong, Rhino looks like a wonderful program, and in fact, I ordered it last night (mostly because I'd like to produce some models that I can also use in Vue) ... HOWEVER, I hope to heck I never stop using my boolean modelling skills (both in Bryce and Vue).

The vase is drop dead gorgeous. The wood needs some work (if you are going for realism, that is), but if it's more of a throw away base just to showcase the vase, then you may not care so much about that aspect of the piece.

If time is the only factor considered, then that's too bad. No matter what kind of work I've been in )medicine and law so far), I have always preferred to take all the time I need in order to give the patient or the client the best outcome possible. I think that trying to beat the clock often results in crappy results. I've also found that doing things the "hard way" has taught me a lot about seeing complex objects in terms of their basic components, and also about patience, and planning. I find it amusing that some people want to jump to the end product without learning any of the basics. You know the type ... they want to be rock stars, they just don't want to have to learn to play an instrument. If a person wants to go into graphics professionally, believe me, they will learn all about doing things the hard way before they start doing things the quick way.

Did a little reading up on Rhino. Now I understand what filleted edges are ... sort of radiused. It does look like a very cool program. But $900??? Yow. Have I been good enough this year to get myself that expensive of a Christmas gift?? And, more importantly, are Buddhists allowed to get themselves Christmas gifts??