ChromeStar posted at 1:03 PM Fri, 14 April 2023 - #4462166

vopehov506 posted at 12:05 PM Fri, 14 April 2023 - #4462159

Most if not all content provided is either old or sponoring by artists, so at no cost, support like they tell on Posersoftware 7/7 24h is directed to these forums also no cost.

There are many reminders on this forum asking people to submit questions to Poser's technical support and not just discuss them in the forums.

Poser is mainly supported at no cost for the owner with the exception of the updates, allot is offered free by community members and users. This lowers the risk highly that Bondware ever could make a loss with Poser. Allot of users in here offer full free support, test the poser for free, make suggestions for free, some in here even spend more time then they would on a 8h job for free.

That's a funny way of saying "Poser has a helpful and supportive community of users." But I guess you can spin anything to make it sound bad.

Actually not meant to be something to sound bad, rather positive, as without all this free support, poser could not stand and we would not have these discussions. So sure a positive aspect all this sponsoring.

 

" Our largest Platform for selling electronics had a fantastic idea after catching over a million negative comments about the products they were selling, at trust pilot they fell right to the ground, They were beating all the records of negative comments and unhappy customers ! So what did they do to use all this support from clients that sure were not positive ? They simply published the really bad comments on tv making clips out of the situations the customers had with the experiences of the purchased products. This system sure did not cause customers running away and stop buying there stuff NOOO exactly the opposite, People even more started to buy there stuff and so they grew to be the largest in the country . All this with the unhappy comments of there customers about crappy stuff they were selling making short movie clips for tv on how unhappy Customers reactions were. "

So see there is always an advantage on any situation, no matter if positive or negative, but what sells most is for sure real Drama ! The how cute how nice or beautiful is skipped as there is nothing that needs to be changed. You just say How Boring, so action sure sells better then a fat ass on a chair.

Guess there is not a very high risk with that Investments Bondware made. Calculating a low support of 1000 + buyers would already be a 2'000'000 $ gain if the average sale is 200$ that already would be a good budget for updates. 

Most if not all content provided is either old or sponoring by artists, so at no cost, support like they tell on Posersoftware 7/7 24h is directed to these forums also no cost. As far as I seen there were no additional assets from Poser 12 to 13 they remained the same, materials probably updated by the original owner that sponsored the assets. again very low cost.

Poser is mainly supported at no cost for the owner with the exception of the updates, allot is offered free by community members and users. This lowers the risk highly that Bondware ever could make a loss with Poser. Allot of users in here offer full free support, test the poser for free, make suggestions for free, some in here even spend more time then they would on a 8h job for free. Even publicity is made for free. Allot of sites place a link to renderosity for free to point at the program that is needed, a thing that renderosity never would allow to be dome for free.  So Poser probably throws more cash then we ever could imagine as small artists ... all at a amazing low cost. A artist has a good heart and is no businessman so he will never be the one who will drive the Ferrari.

It is how business goes, This is the way most application owner act at the moment, as long as customers play that game. The future might not get any better, considering that every new created poser asset that you will purchase for future poser versions will depend on the Poser activation, no matter if you made the purchases from independent creators of poser. If such a decision would be taken again it would include any of your investments no matter where you got them from that you use in Poser. This basically already is causing fear to the customers making any Investments as they could lose it all. Same for Creators all there efforts there creations for future poser versions depending on Bondware ( A real motivation killer ) ain't it ?

It is not only me that thinks this way many other poser users have the same fear for some others it is just subconscious hoping that it never will happen, but see it realistic, it will, else where would be the gain. It is where our Industry leads to the way of business, not just Bondware, one started with this system other realized that with this controll system you can generate money and fallow the system. once the money stops to flow you just cut, giving some excuse and obligate customers to make all new investments for a new version. Or just sell it the new one kills it and takes over all customers for he's Nr version change letting you use some of your Investments for a while.   

hornet3d posted at 6:15 PM Wed, 12 April 2023 - #4461963

Considering the deceitful way SM introduced the deadly deactivation feature with Game Dev I struggle to see how SM did Poser users any favours then or after they sacked the dev team.  I am much happier that Poser is in the hands of Bondware than being left under the ownership of SM.

Well this brings us to the big question. Who is the owner of Poser ? Is Bondware only owner of 11.2 up or is Bondware owner of Poser ? You might have to think like a businessman, so who did really hit the kill switch after the contract have been signed? Not only Game DEV but also Poser 11.1 ... has there ever been a statement from either side, or were all these just assumptions of users? If you have a little Knowledge of functionality about these activation features, checking a little the way poser is programmed, fallowing the Links then these will lead you to the culpid. 

The contract was clear it was not only a purchase of a Application but it included all costumers including there information there accounts there purchases. This is how business runns. If a hacker can remove that kill switch the day of P13 release, why is it so hard for the owner removing it him self ( Talking about the actual ) not the one who had it before. So who do you think is in charge and how easy would it of been keeping poser DEV active. The one who sold the rights is not in charge for this happening, the decision was taken by the new owner and no one else. Luckily Previous poser had no built in Kill link in the EXE else you can only imagine what would of happen. 

So do you think this was a honest move towards honest Poser users ? I personally thing NO it was NOT , but it is the passed, some accepted the happening others did not. The ones who accepted all of this, jumped onto newer releases, the others just keep the older versions running until they die then change to another optional hoppy. As simple as that.

Personally and also from many discussions with my community members, majority did not find a good acceptance about this whole doing, sticking on older poser versions or just jumping to DS. Allot of trusted users gotten hurt with this business affair " Sure understandable " so in silence they go.

You might call all this a full new start, the old ones will be forgotten, and may be fresh blood will be attracted in the future that never had anything to do with poser the past decades, also removing any dependence of a V4 or older poser stuff that is no longer supported. Like you always mention Poser can't be stuck on all this old stuff and needs to Improve so the old literarily needs to be replaces. All the old stuff for Poser never will be supported again as these creators are long gone! So the only way is a cold Start and if this does not work because of wrong managing and marketing, if no new creators or customers appear, well then you might figure out the answer your self.  But all this " The Plan " is not including us old users that stand short before our retirements with already one leg in the grave.

DCArt posted at 8:08 AM Wed, 12 April 2023 - #4461895

>>>> But a commenter on my vid made the observation that the underlying technology has been stagnant for a decade, and by and large, I don't much disagree with that notwithstand superfly in 2015. Innovations rather than streamlines have been awfully thin on the ground wouldn't you say?

This does not mention the fact that Smith Micro laid off the entire original Poser team in 2016, and replaced them with a team that was almost entirely unfamiliar with the application. This was a "cost cutting" move, not a performance move. In the three years between the layoff and the time that Bondware purchased Poser, there were only two very minor updates to Poser 11 (11.1 and 11.2, both released by the replacement team). The only "major" feature released in those two versions was a paths palette, that didn't really work as well as it should.

Bondware purchased Poser in June of 2019 and the first initial release was to fix that the Smith Micro releases "phoned home" to an authorization server that SM has shut down. After that Bondare started working on Poser 12, and included some of the original developers on their team. That was a step in the right direction.

Has Poser lost ground? Yes, it has. But that finger points to the previous owner that nearly ran it to the ground. Not to Bondware, who is at least moving it forward.

Allowing my self to make some corrections on your comment.

SM last update was Poser Pro 11.1  11.2 was the first release of bondware, this release already messed up the Python engine as they literarily changed the version number length causing most scripts not to work any longer. Only fix was a Py that you need to launch with poser from a third party getting these to work correctly.

Concerning the activation of Poser SM had a permanent activation and a permanent offline activation for poser 11 that was removed by bondware the SM offline activation server was still online for almost a half year after the purchase of Poser from bondware, the moment bondware got aware of this still running activation server they forced SM to take it also down.

The next thing came right up by sending out a killer to terminate any Permanent running Poser to obligate the trusted users to use the Latest Poser 11.2 release from bondware. this got send by the  integrated producturlsupport.com periodically to make sure that any legal registered Poser 11.1 license gets killed removing every permanent licence. 

Bondware removed the offline activation and Permanent activation replacing it with there new weekly renew version that throws a new script into your C Drive every week, actually not a Piracy protection as this system only controls the honest clients and only these who have a legal licence can be reached with this system.

meanwhile also the killer producturlsupport.com got taken down removing any trace of the act as there is no more need after 2 years chasing the honest customers killing there permanent poser activations.

So the intention, or lets say excuse, SM made this activation that could not be removed was never true. they made it even worse then it was before by force. Not even intending it to be against piracy as this could not be stopped. It all was intended to catch every client and previous honest Poser buyer by force sending them a little notice " Hey your poser id dead " you need to come to us to get it running again. Right in there face on the Desktop

 

So to make Poser big , Keep it simple, for the simple people, build in creation improvements for the figure creators in background, else these simple users will be confused loosing the fun of it, do not forget that these users even have a hard time to know the difference between Conforming and Parenting a figure outfit. Making Poser a mix between Blender is not the solution, the solution is the simple users. Already the removal of the "simple" Material room was a wrong step. why not keep the complicated stuff behind the scene for the creators. Sure Poser can be extended as stuff needs to be created, but not right in your face, the simple users will run away witch is majority. else these might as well start using Blender, but this group does not want to use a Blender, exactly because of the simple alternative, A Blender would just rise over there horizon.

The simple light Poser is the best concurrence to the others that make it complicated 

In my Poser career I got to know many Writers that use poser for there fan fiction covers, yes that was really surprising, other ones that also used the simple posing system in poser with all these offered assets for there work presentations, some even make renders pretending on expo's that these were painted :) and guess! these do not want to mess with tech stuff, they are not cyber junkies they need a good app to load the stuff they purchased and make there covers and little presentations fast cheap and reliable.

DCArt posted at 5:32 PM Mon, 10 April 2023 - #4461605

Richard60 posted at 3:26 PM Mon, 10 April 2023 - #4461591

The problem is that of a chicken and egg situation.  Vendors don't want to make new stuff that is only usable in the newest version since it will cut out some possible sales.  Therefore, trying to find stuff to use in the newest version is hard to locate so people stick to the old version which makes vendors say see everyone uses the 12-year version, so there is no need to create for the new version.  Me, I make everything in the latest version and if it happens to work in a prior version great, if not oh well.  Of course, I do it for the fun of it and not to make a living.  The nice thing about the last couple of versions is that you don't need a massive number of nodes in the material room to make something look good.  That along with the fact that you can now render without any lights and get good results in a short amount of time gives me a bit more time to work on fixing OLD materials to make them work in Poser 13.  

I'd venture to guess that there is hardly ANYONE left that is using any version of Poser prior to Poser 9/Pro 2012 or 10/Pro 2014.  To continue to support earlier versions won't get you many additional sales.

Well from the 1'200 ++ members I have, 80% are still using poser 2012 - 2016 that is a pretty high amount and not to be compared to the active Poser members here in the forums. So the voices of the few in here could not be presented as a reliable average statistic. 

My experience shows that it is best to keep things simple when creating figures, not talking about material doll character extensions. So a Creator might be on the secure side just using the basic texture nodes. It grants a fast render and users can extend the material settings to there preferences. Important is that it loads correctly in the latest releases and prior ones . For now majority from the ones I know are still using the old versions up to the times of SM sticking on there older Investments. And even these " Old " still Improve from month to month.

End users are mostly using poser as a Relaxing Hobby, after a hard day of work letting them selves fall into that creative fantasy world, they do not really want to spend hour's of figuring out how to setup a material, most do not even enter the material room. they have no Idea about the morph tools, they want it simple just the way poser was built for. Posing some finished models for there little own worlds " To call it a day " 

The poser tech's in here are lifting it to much on the few in here that want more and more making it complicated removing the simple addons that were given, forgetting about the silent majority that really is using poser for there fun.

And Nop these do not want to jump on a Blender to make it better they just want the simple Poser to pose what they purchased, and no they do not want to mess with technical stuff as they want it to be a relaxing toy for there obscure fantasies.    

With some experience you might still be able making a great render in Poser4 . Older promo's for products made in Poser in the early 2010 - 2015 are way ahead of what is presented and created now, with this top notch superfly engine and high end gpu's, so this is making me wonder if all really Improved or if there is rather a big loss of quality for higher speed.

hornet3d posted at 7:25 AM Sun, 9 April 2023 - #4461431

vopehov506 posted at 5:39 AM Sun, 9 April 2023 - #4461423

My Favorite version still is Poser 11.1 as all is working the way it should, absolutely not impressed with later versions. Getting complex renders in Firefly in less then a minute resulting to have a artistic look, all my assets work that I got since the beginning of Millennium. When reading all the upcoming issues with materials it seems to me that most of the sold stuff in the store either should be removed or fixed as there not compatible anymore for poser 12 up. It is as if you buy a 10 year old battery for a new cellphone and the seller tells you to fit it in your self.

yes there are some issues with older poser here and there but they can be fixed in no time, like Poser 11.1 the other day giving a Token error on line 8 witch is a fast fix by just adding a line in your host file blocking the old dead link that was taking records of your poser usage. 

I can understand your viewpoint but it is heavily influenced by your commitment to Firefly, not only is that not the case for all of us, there is a line of thought that says there are far fewer challenges in standing still than trying to stretch your skillset. 

True that standing still is not bringing you anywhere. As a creator my self there is a huge conflict with this new system. First of all it is a incredible additional work getting the materials correct that is ending up to be more work then creating a standalone articulated figure. there are huge issues getting a correct setting for a good quality render. This whole issues will increase the need of support for sold products, ending up with high risc that customers will not be very happy with there purchases. Customers do expect a fuilly working product for there investments, they do not want to fix it passing day's on it and figuring out a working material setting with 100 ++ of nodes and  digit settings for just one asset. Sure it is ok having optionally allot of possibilities ( Optionally ) but with this whole upgrading they probably forgot that mostly these products are sold and have to be produced to a reasonable price, I bet you do not want having to spend over 100 - 1000 $ for a single asset like offered for professional programs. For Creators ... keep it simple, nice, functional and cheap. Sure now you get a super fast rendering but you forget to add the day's you will spend on finding the correct material setting for your render so you probably Increased the production time by 10'000 % just to do one render. your render instead of 10 min for older poser versions takes you now a whole day just to get the right setup. That is sure not what customers want!

Comes to it that over 90% of the Poser store products are no longer compatible, I mean that is almost all what has ben built since poser exists and for the first time a full clean out. I just do not want to imagine Daz pulling down all poser stuff including V4 just because they can't be sold any longer due compatibility issues, piles of refund, and angry customers. You just can't sell stuff that is not working any longer. And if Daz pulls down the Millenniums for poser then Renderosity will be forced pulling down all the Conforming stuff for these models as the base is no longer existent. As a Vendor how would you explain that it ain't working ? just telling him, sorry but Bondware changed the program so I'm not in charge that it ain't working right anymore. 

There are just two different aspects between a customer and a Creator. So no Creators, no customers, ending up with no Poser.

My Favorite version still is Poser 11.1 as all is working the way it should, absolutely not impressed with later versions. Getting complex renders in Firefly in less then a minute resulting to have a artistic look, all my assets work that I got since the beginning of Millennium. When reading all the upcoming issues with materials it seems to me that most of the sold stuff in the store either should be removed or fixed as there not compatible anymore for poser 12 up. It is as if you buy a 10 year old battery for a new cellphone and the seller tells you to fit it in your self.

yes there are some issues with older poser here and there but they can be fixed in no time, like Poser 11.1 the other day giving a Token error on line 8 witch is a fast fix by just adding a line in your host file blocking the old dead link that was taking records of your poser usage. 

Yes some of these renders are looking promising, not saying perfect as I would not hang it up in one of my room's. Giving to many compliments might prevent getting better :) I think there still is allot of work ahead for most of these works. From my profession I learned that a artwork is then good if you or someone would hang it up in a living room. It is a helpful technique to realize where it could be done better.  Allot of these works, I mean not just poser look allot like screen shots out of older games, so far results are not really convincing. Make a comparison, if a Sims shot look better then your render then you have allot of work ahead.

Allot of pinup's have no Life given, Portraits are staring as if they zombies ( Expression missing ) that is telling a story.  Not that I want to say Poser would not have the potential, but for giving it the potential the renders need reaching a quality to be hang up in a Room. 

Ok it seems you sure have a all around protection LOL, May be even a little to much :)  that stuff can sure be heavy on computers. You add more and your computer starts setting priorities . Anyway hope it works with your Poser when turning off that Antivirus then you at least know where the Issue lies.  

You just have to make sure not to save your backup Images on the same drive you have your system, A big mistake that allot people do, as you cant restore an Image that is saved on the same drive you wish to restore "LOL" That would kill your system and the Image with one klick :)