CyberStretch, You are correct - CL does have a presence here and they more than likely read a good percentage of the posts. The problem is, this is the same discussion we all had back when ProPack was being released. CL relented then. Do you think that they forgot that particular uproar and just went ahead this time with this copy protection anyway? Not likely. I will wager that this time there will be NO relenting no matter what opinions are expressed here. And please, don't get me wrong - It is VERY important that people convey their opinions. My sole "problem" is that people talked about why they weren't going to buy Poser5 without thinking about all of the other things they put up with in life ONLY because they've become so used to them, i.e. car registration. And this is only ONE item where it is relevant - I am sure we put up with ALOT more than this. My point is... CL is not the only entity doing this. THINK about the other things in your life that you HAVE to put up with and put everything in perspective. That's all. Express your opinions? ABSOLUTELY. And also... use your (everyone including me) brain!

CyberStretch... You say: "Most of the registration processes you describe are one time only, unlike the CL and MS activation processes that require multiple registrations under certain circumstances." And let's say that you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. But MOST is not ALL. The car registration example Kate uses is a prime example. If you DON'T register your car every year you CAN'T legally drive it. If you DON'T register Poser5 each time you put it on your machine you CAN'T use it. CL has decided to move in a certain direction. While I'm sure none of us really likes this process, it's very much like the car registration. We don't want to have to do it, but in order to use it we must. Look, as I said earlier, it's obvious that everyone has formed their opinion and it's not likely to be changed. Some just have a harder time than others seeing the similarities in everyday things we already take for granted - I have not figured out which category I fall into. It all comes down to "is the software important enough to me to put up with the hassle?" If it is, you'll buy it - and if it isn't, you won't. Enough said!

Melanie, Your "sticking to your principles" does not offend me AT ALL. You (obviously) may do as you please. You first said: "CL doesn't trust their customers and I find that insulting..." and neither do department stores. If they did, there would be NO security system at all. And, you said: "At least MetaCreations trusted their customers." Yes, and where is MetaCreations now? They, as was stated in an earlier post, abandoned their customers. Pretty nice huh? And trusting their customers? CL did that as well. We don't know what would have happened had MC kept Poser, but I'd bet they would have went with a similar process - but as I said, we'll never know. Let me ask you this... what happens if stores start having you "sign in" at the front before you purchase anything? You won't shop there? What if ALL stores went this way? You would HAVE to adapt. It may be that all software companies will do the same as MS, CL and scores of others have already done. Then we ALL will have no choice but to adapt. I was commenting (okay, criticizing if you wish) on what I saw as taking a side but not really seeing it. In the end, it doesn't really matter anyway. We (and everyone else) will do what we want to do. So... still... take care and BEST of luck to you!

Well... it would be VERY nice to see more applications ported to Linux. I guess we'll just have to keep asking - the more vendors that comply and port to Linux... and providing people buy from them, the more lucrative it will look to other vendors and hopefully they'll port as well. I would love to get away from M$, but until they're is something almost as good... well... Maybe Lindows will help.

Jaqui, If it WERE that easy why wouldn't these ports to Linux NOT be done? If it doesn't take that long and they can get a few more sales, then why not? Lightwave hasn't been ported after ALOT of people have requested it. Why not if it's that easy? Again, I know NOTHING about programming. But... I would guess that if WERE that easy it would have already been done. It would be interesting to see what CL would say.

TtfnJohn... I agree with you about the copy protection. And... "the challenge/repsonse systems are a PITA." Yes, they are. And when all added up they amount to alot. My point is... why should CL be singled out? They are like everyone else. Should they discontinue their copy protection system just because someone like you (and me) has alot of apps that require the same (or similar) sort of work to get them up and running? My sister has only a few apps that require it. It doesn't bother her. She had NO problems with XP and the other apps. Yet you've had bad luck. The point here is, not everyone has the same aggravation. Is this not true? Regarding the port to Linux... As I said before, Lightwave users have been requesting a port to Linux for a LONG time. We don't have it. On the LW forum one person said that it shouldn't be too difficult because of the similarities with the Mac system - then a programmer responded saying that that was not quite true. VERY SIMILAR does not make it VERY EASY. A Linux port would require ALOT of new coding and recoding. I am not a programmer so I cannot confirm nor deny this. But since more people have been asking for the LW Linux version than the Poser Linux version and nothing yet, well... And again... how many more sales would they achieve with their efforts? I don't like the copy protection either. My "venting" is because people say they're not gonna buy the software simply BECAUSE it has copy protection. Fine. Don't buy it. I don't like the aggravation either but it IS SMALL compared to what you get. Really... is that NOT obvious? If it wasn't, people like you John (and me), wouldn't buy it.

Poppi - I couldn't care less if you bought Poser5 today, tomorrow, next week, next year - or never. I was commenting on the people saying that they're not buying Poser5 simply because of the copy protection implementation and all of its implications. THAT'S ALL. If I gave the impression (which I obviously have) that I think EVERYONE should buy Poser5 NOW - I'm sorry. Again, that was NOT my intention. Sorry for the confusion.

Why Melanie, you have been here longer than I have - I'm 43. Congrats! When I said - you and everyone else needs to get a grip - it wasn't necessarily saying that EVERY POINT I was making was meant for EVERY person in this forum. You need to get a grip in particular when you start saying - "I'm not going to buy it because of a principle. CL doesn't trust their customers and I find that insulting..." Read what I said about department store security and cameras, etc. You accept one but not the other? Perhaps because one has been around longer than the other and since we've lived with it for so long it's accepted? They are the same. And not understanding that you will eventually have to upgrade your computer because sometime in the future newer software won't be able to run on '98? Your principles may need adjustment if you will be running any popular software - unless copy protection dies. Not likely, but it's possible. Being 52 you should have a better understanding. My guess is that you do but are too angry to see it. Regardless of the fact that you don't have a car/don't drive - I would think that you would understand the meaning. I DO know that you never said anything to irk me personally :) but too often people say things before they think (gee, I'm NEVER guilty of that:) and then don't even think about it after that. If you don't want to buy Poser5 because it's got copy protection, fine. As I said before, most of the people saying that they won't be buying Poser5 because of the copy protection will eventually buy it because they'll be seeing too many great things coming out of people that have it. I wish you nothing but the best! Truly! Poppi - What I meant about everyone getting a grip... I guess in a way I DID mean you. Especially when you said that you didn't even know if you would find the software useful? Why would I expect you to buy it? What does that even have to do with you then. If you're not a real contender to buy the software, then why are you interested? And by the way... where did I try to "fudge on it"? Just curious. And the same to you - I wish you nothing but the best!

Oh timoteo1... you are SO funny. LOL!? Yes, I guess you are wasting your time because it's USELESS here as well. You've made up your mind as I have. It doesn't matter if you're against anti-piracy measures or not. They are here for the time being. Until someone (perhaps you?) can come up with a foolproof method - which of course probably doesn't exist - there will always be attempts at copy protection.As I said above, CL has the right to copy protect. YOU have the right NOT to buy. So... you may think I'm "trolling." I'm here all of the time - it's just when people get so upset over little things and start ranting and raving that I end up "speaking." When I have a question or something to say, I say it. As with everything, feel free to think what you think - as I do all of the time. Good Luck!

Yes - you're right. IF the casual copier knows where to look. MANY don't. It's stopping them. Or won't you even concede that the copy protection will stop anyone? CL has the right to do what they want to do. YOU have the right to buy or Not to buy. It's ONLY an inconvenience for US. There are far more pressing issues in the world than this (rather stupid) one. Looks like you'll waste even more time! :D

Ok timoteo1 - your flaw is that WE own the car. And you even pointed it out - we do NOT OWN the software. We license it. CL owns the software. They are protecting their investment. They've decided to lock their car all the time. If you decide differently then that's YOUR choice. Your analogy is flawed - you reversed it. Just look at the owners of each item (CL owns Poser - WE own the car) we're talking about and perhaps YOU will understand. And THANK YOU so much for wasting your time on something so OBVIOUS. Yeah... right. Flawed, yes. Obvious, no.

Okay timoteo1... explain (yes, explain) why the car keys analogy is NOT valid. Oh please, "waste" your time. We lock our cars because we don't know who is honest or dishonest. The professional thief WILL break in no matter what - the unprofessional will have a more difficult time. Poser5 copy protection - the "professional cracker" WILL break the copy protection code - the unprofessional (aka casual copier) will have a more difficult time. So... EXPLAIN why "that's just not even remotely valid." Will it take that long to explain? Poppi - yeah, she's grounded because she mentions her bills come first. Well... of course that's smart. Unfortunately she mentions this in her SECOND post and it's probably her MAIN reason for not buying Poser5 NOW. And saying that you haven't entered the Windows long codes because Win98 was already on her machine is just naive. So, she didn't put it on her machine. But it WAS put on her machine. And if she eventually upgrades she'll probably have to do it anyway. To me, that's not a very firm grasp on the reality of the situation. And poppi, when did I ever say YOU don't have a grip? If you're not sure you'll be using the software or if it's right for you, then WHY would I assume you'd buy it? Okay? You should get a grip on what you're saying. Anybody who buys Poser5 first and worries about real-world bills second has a serious reality problem anyway. My bottom line - when everyone becomes intelligent enough to create their own programs, then I guess we won't have to worry about this sort of thing, will we?

Aleks, believe me - I hear your pain. I've got it too! In a perfect world we and companies wouldn't need this sort of stuff. Unforunately... we don;t live in that world - yet! I hear what you're saying about small companies and big ones. The problem is, it's the smaller companies that are more vulnerable to theft. Hopefully things will get better. I doubt they will in the near future, but we can always hope!

Hey Melanie, 1. So I assume you don't go shopping in any stores that have cameras or a security system like devices attached to clothing, etc? These companies are automatically assuming that you can't be trusted. 2. You have a computer where Win98 was preinstalled so you didn't have to enter the LONG NUMBER? Gee, what happens when your computer DIES or if the harddrive fries? me thinks you'll have to upgrade then. :) And... in a few years, newer programs won't have Win98 as the OS that will run their programs. 3. Poor customer service? Why? Because they implemented this copy protection? If that's what you mean, see item #1 above. 4. So... you haven't patched your METACREATIONS POSER with any of the CL patches? If you did, it's a CURIOUS LABS POSER now! :) 5. Why don't you just say you're not gonna buy it now because you have real-life problems LIKE bills? Move into the real world Melanie and see what's going on around you. You deal with anti-theft protection all of the time. How dare those car makers make us use keys to get into our cars! Have you EVER misplaced your car keys? What an annoyance THAT can be. "Ridiculous code nonsense"? Do YOU lock your car? Bet you do. What's the problem here? Don't trust people? My point here Melanie is that you and everyone else needs to get a grip. This is the REAL WORLD and we deal with this stuff every day. It's just that most people don't SEE it. Try getting some perspective and you'll see. The Poser5 copy protection is NO different than anything else.

Aleks, what choice do you really have? You can buy the software or choose not to. Yes, it's inconvenient - tedious only because you have so many apps that require authorization. But why should CL be the ONE company to say "okay, we'll take the copy protection off because too many other programs have it on"? Why not tell the other company's (who are no doubt larger than CL) to do just that? About the money spent... well, it's already spent. You may remember when they were releasing ProPack all of the whining that went on about copy protection then on this forum. The point is, CL knew this would not be popular but they still went ahead and did it. So what? It's what THEY felt they needed to do. If I tell you to do something that I feel YOU should do because it makes sense to me - that doesn't mean it'll make sense to you! And... you probably won't do it! :) Regarding the copy protection being worth it... I have no doubt that cracks will be available VERY soon. I believe that this is MAINLY for the casual copier making it for friends - it keeps them honest. And before people start arguing about "why should I suffer" - we all suffer all of the time with higher prices on goods at the store because of shoplifting and other theft. And what about the cameras all around the store? DO they assume everyone is a shoplifter? No, but they are for the shoplifter - but all shoppers know it's there and it DOES affect ALL shoppers just the same. They just may deter the average shoplifter. The same with Poser5 copy protection. Perhaps John would copy it for his friend Jim - but he can't because the copy protection is in place... Jim plays with it on Johns computer and says "this is cool, I've got to get one" and he ends up buying the app instead of STEALING it. About the "there's also another catch."... yes, you trust CL to do what they say they're gonna do. Why? Because you only have two choices. To buy or not to buy the software. If you don't trust them, don't buy. YES, it's one more bit of aggravation - but it's such an incredibly SMALL bit of aggravation compared to what you're getting in return. If people end up not buying the software because of the copy protection, fine. It's they who are cutting off their noses to spite their faces. You can't please everyone. And those who don't buy it... well... I believe that they are in the VAST minority. And like I said in the previous thread, once they see what everyone else is saying and doing with this program, they'll break down and buy it anyway. You'll see. For me, I trust CL to do what they say. The copy protection is an annoyance but a very small one and NOT one that would deter me from buying the software. I'm honest and I don't foresee any great hassles - which will hopefully be the case. I think Poser is a great product and I'm VERY glad that CL picked up the Poser ball and continued to develop it. YES, they're doing it so they can make money, but that's what businesses do. Fortunately we both benefit. I support CL fully on this. And those who don't like it... well, keep complaining. I don't care. I'm buying Poser5. And 6 and 7 and... as long as they keep innovating, I'm there!