Quote - I know about the Shadow Cameras but it's still a bit different. In Poser you need to render once before the Shadow Cams are available

I recently switched from DAZ 3A to Poser 8.  Shadow Cams actually are available prior to rendering.

Quote - Well OK, that's fine.  But then again, you did stumble into a discussion here about how to achieve realism in a render. ;-)

Quite true.  So, I'll just leave you all to continue helping the OP.  :-)

Quote - So while in a lot of cases, photorealism may not be art, it IS a highly sought-after ability.

I love CG, and am constantly blown away by what can be achieved with it.  I'm also not trying to refute its legitimacy as an art form.  There are just certain styles of 3D art that have more of a personal effect on me than others, and experiments in photorealism aren't one of them.

Quote - Why would photorealism be excluded from interpretation and invoking emotions? A photograph, even a landscape photograph can invoke emotion.

To be clear, I typically equate photorealism with renders of portraits, architexture, and inatimate objects, like automobiles and other things.

Please understand, I'm not trying to define art, but, personally, those types of renders do nothing for me on an emotional leve.  I enjoy looking at them, and I greatly admire the technical skill that went into creating them, but that's all the effect they have on me.

Quote - I couldn't agree with you more on all that, Nyghtfall.  I don't equate "art" with photoreal anyway.

Nor do I.

Quote - I mean, look at some of the greatest paintings of all time. Nothing particularly photoreal about any that I've seen, although some have come pretty close, but the art was the intention, not necessarily the accuracy.

Exactly.  Art, to me, is about interpretation, and, as I wrote before, evoking emotion.  IMHO, that's not possible with photorealism.

Quote - Ya know, when you have learned Poser, would you mind telling us all how it's done? ;)

Oh, sure... ask me anything!

hehehe

WOW... talk about an information dump...

Thank you though.  Much appreciated.

Now... about that Render window...  :)

I just finished Chapter 5 of the Reference Manual, and the section on Rendering didn't mention a way to clear the Render window.  I've got a small Area Render of a scene that I'd like to trash.  Is there a way to do that?

Quote - The reference manual is fine....only if you are an insomniac.

Yeah, this thing is incredibly dry reading.  Thankfully, I've found that listening to Pandora.com helps keep me awake.

OhthankGod... Found it!  Whew!

:D

I'm reading the chapter on Lighting, and have an issue that greatly concerns me.

Is there a way to actually look through lights in Poser?  The manual discusses how to control them, but doesn't mention a way to look through them.  I found that feature in DAZ to be invaluable when I was lighting my first project.

Quote - At the risk of getting flamed for this, regarding the "photorealistic" part...

There was once a time when I dreamt of achieving photorealistic quality renders.  Then I started doing some research into the subject.  It occurred to me that, as lofty a goal as that is, achieving that level of detail in the context of an actual scene is not only unealistic, it would severely diminish the artistic quality of the kind of renders I want to create.  I think photorealism is great for artists wanting to show off their modeling skills by creating head shots, static environments and inanimate objects like vehicles, rooms, and buildings, but it wouldn't mesh well with the kind of stylized renders that I want to produce.

Consider, for example, the images in this gallery:

www.luxology.com/gallery/image/

I don't think anyone here would disagree that those images are technical marvels in 3D modeling. Impressive, yes, but not particularly memorable, and I prefer art that's memorable. I want to create art that's memorable, that evokes some kind of emotion.

Now, these are just a few of the best renders I've seen in Renderosity's gallery.  They're beautifully done, full of style, and very memorable:

www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php

www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php

www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php

So... Personally, I've abandoned my own interest in photorealism; it just won't work with what I really want to do.

madno2,

I commend your efforts.  I don't have any tips for your current project, as I'm a relative newbie myself, but I do hope you find success in accomplishing your goals.

One thing I learned is how to customize the UI, so I've been having some fun with it.

My experience with DAZ made me accustomed to its UI.  Thanks to Poser 8's new floating menus and docking features, I was able to create a similar layout.

Here are the changes I've made, with explanations:

Camera Controls - I have a SpaceNavigator 3D Mouse, and no need for the Camera Controls, so I closed them.

UI Dots - I'm the only one who will be using Poser, and have no need for different UI layouts, so I closed the UI Dots as well..

Animation Controls - I've no interest in creating movies, so I closed that tool, which in turn freed up a bit more space in the document window.

Library - I wasn't crazy about the Library and Parameter Dials sharing the same space.  Having closed the Camera Controls freed up room to move the Library to the left, which is great since I'm used to loading content from the left and then tweaking Parameters from the right as I work; and since the Parameter dials now take up the entire vertical space on the right, I won't have to scroll through them as much.

Preview Styles - I don't anticipate using these much, so I disabled them, allowing even more vertical space for the Library.  I'll just re-enable them as a floating menu when I want to use them.

Editing Tools - Finally, Having the Editing Tools and Lighting Controls on opposite ends of the Library didn't look aesthetically pleasing, nor did I feel that their hierarchy would offer a smooth, cohesive workflow, so I moved the Editing Tools directly above the Lighting Controls.

I'm very happy with the result.  Everything is exactly where I want it, and I've got plenty of work space:

Quote - This graphic was created for Poser 7 but you may find something on it helpful.

Nice!  Thanks!

Quote - BTW - Welcome to the asylum. :biggrin:

Thank you.  hehehe

Quote - Welcome to our little poser world

Thanks.

It feels great to finally join the ranks of one of the more popular 3D modeling apps.  I've toyed a little bit with DAZ since its inception, and began contemplating switching to Poser when version 8 came out.  DAZ's modular design simply turned me off from having any interest in exploring it further.  I want a program that has everything it's capable of already built  into the app.

A few product reviews and feedback on SR1 convinced me to make the move to Poser, and here I am!

:)

Thank you.

I'm going to put the Tutorial on hold for now, and start going through the Reference manual, first.  Then I'll have a much better understanding of Poser's layout and functionality when I resume the Tutorial.