This Discussion is not only based on am I allowed to do or not , I see it rather like this, are there alternatives ( More flexipilities ) rather then always pointing fingers saying it is a destingtive work or it is a Pic that already has been seen somwhere but still differs from one another.

If the Law As you said repeating what I said earlier. ""As it stands, in the US, you need to register a work before you can sue. "" then how many have been registred ?

If somone Like in the store creates a Doll using Combined morphs from other pakages creating hes own Distingtive Costum Morph with exeption of ones Provided By Daz, why is that allowed ? ( Is it cos it cant be proven ? ) but used in a daily base.

and it is not the govenment or a Berne convention who makes the Law , we are the ones who restrict our selves we make the laws a eula just repeats what we decide . if we recognize that there would be the need for more flexibility we just change them for our own benefits. so it is on the Artists to decide whether it is possible or not .

Would I whant to make a Product more attractive I would write .

Small Sample: Do not redestribute the product in its originall state , you may modefie the product at own will and redestribute as long it does not match the originall ! 

so to say make it more plesant for a costumer to use by showing flexibilitie. we are in a economic circle that has allot of issues so why not try to find ideas to fix them starting with little things.  

you Know Laurie , I really Like your Attitude , and for us there is no need to Have a shop in Renderosity as Our work is a little more advanced then to sell Virtual Dreams and Uptates based on one  existing Products  ,  our work is rather to Push Economy than to Block it. It is rather Using ideas and sharing them In sociaty giving the next generation Posibilities to build up something.

If you would be capable of reading and understanding this thread witch does nothing else then to figure out solutions for others to be able to take part in an artistic way. Not only restricting those. 

The mentality ( Whether you Like the Us and accept it fallow there Rooles or just keep out ) is not  verry Productive  for International merchandise tradings. 

Most static Buildings are made in High end Programms , some things we see even have been ripped out of Games. But verry difficult to prove as it is mostly only a fragment of those. The OBJ actually is importet into Poser  and reasamled as one static Prop the information of doorframes Doors windows are actually still here , just that the creator instead of importing the OBJ subdivided and reasembled in Poser he merged them into one , It can actually be taken appart in the Material room of poser by saving the materials as Props. And would not be a distingtive work just a Update as Long as the originall product is required to be able to use the Update. It is actually the Major Part of Poser to do so most Products are So called Distinctive works. In the store there is one addon after the other to find one update after an other Just like working as a team On a huuge Project. Restricting these Posibilities would most Likely cause that new great Creators could not integrate ino such a community. We stand still .

It Probably also would Prevent,  Like mentioned by MrSparky Fighting the dark side , rather pushing ( Motivating )the  People to create  then to steal by showing more felibility. and hes just released Product on Content Paradise would of not shown up on a search  right after its release. ( Just a side Joke )

We are Talking here about Legal issues but they result rather into Restriction then to be Productive for an Artist community.( Cant use this Cant Use that ) One allone could of never made Poser the way it is today it has been build hand in hand by many People with many great ideas , and now it seems more and more restricting compairing to the flexibility shown almost a decade ago.

The day every Idea will have been brought out, there will be nothing left to create, rather then to steal other Ideas and resulting, caused by own limitations that people start pointing fingers at each other . 

every healthy management thinks in Decades but not just only in the Present. 

As I Said .. Was only a side Question to be able to understand those confusing rooles , about one that can another one not and on what the rooles are actually Based :-)

Well selling a Unfinished Product Is also wrong or Providing a Product to be used to Improve your creations that cant be Improved further Is also wrong , Improving V4 Is also Wrong , Especially Writing rooles for own Benefits is terribly Wrong.

I Take a sample . I buy a Static Building , But Ooohh The door does not open, but that door should open as it is needed for my clip , ain't it soo tha the Product is sold to be used in clips ? But it does not work , so why not being able to sell that Imprvement to the Building ? you also sell Clothings with Bones from V4 Or Modefied Morphs that already have ben sold Jus Mixed and modefied Saved as a OBJ Morph and added as your costum morph on a new doll!!

Or IK Chains that are Missing A must have for any Figure with Legs especially if it would be a Spider But they are missing , so why could it not be fixed and sold as an addon to emprove that missing feature ?? you do this all the Time with other figures especially with V4.

I rather think that the the issue would be that a costumer would recognize that the sold Product was not what they expected it to be, or is it on the Costumer to fix it them self for he's own use witch would again be against the roole.

Another sample You Buy one of those Newer Space Crafts from Simon Mostly static But you need Movements for your anmations so why not being able to make packages witch Improve the feature of new Morphs New movements as a Improved CR2 Without redestributing the textures or Obj's ( And actually this metod has been used for years on the Victoria series for diverse Dolls  on redestributing the CR2 with integrated Morphs. ) I can also see that many morphs for example Pucker Lips on dolls have been used many times in the Past as Costum morph but reley on already sold Packages just a combination of morph's saved as a new costum morph and sold as its own ! and for sure not made in a third-party programm or by using Paint Morph. .

 A Side Question ....

The Past Day's I whent through Hundred's of collected things, From different Artist's , I Figured that most Products sold where unfinished full of mistakes , Path Mistakes Missing Textures Axis on the Wrong Place for rotation Rigging has to be fixed Morphs Named wrong not being recognized, allot of Products with Missing IK Chains , Products created Between 2002 - 2005 where having less issues but the ones from the Past year where Full of them  1 of 20 where ok 19 need fixes ,

Now How would that be .... If somond desides to Sell Fixes for these Incompleate Products or Improvements , How would that be , the One sells right after buying a New Product a fix or an addon witch has more Possibilities based for example on a CR2 but does not Redestribute the OBJ exept the OBJ would have to be also Fixed and would code the Product that could only be opend owning the Originall, well a sample how all the creators in here Already do to Improve V4.

The one who makes the fix would automaticly get Copyright on he's fix ... Right? 

The Originall Creator would be Blocked to make the same Fix him self on he's own Product ... I assume !!!

I realized this the Past days well the Quality loss in the Past Year witch made me think ... are the Creator only selling Dreams With there promos but actually not a quality Product ??

So actually it would be aproffitable for the Consumer to have the possibility having a  Let's call it a Dream Fixer for Unfinished sold Products.

As a simple sample , take a Robo Figure witch has no IK Chain then Add the IK Chain to the Figure and sell the CR2 In the store as an addon Or Figure Improvement the The originall creator could not add the IK Chains on Hes originall Product as an Improvement as for the one who made the Update was first !!

Or redestribute Fixed Files of wrong Path's in Cr2 Or Poses without adding the OBJ's in the Package or Texture files the one who redestributes the fix has the copyright on it . 

 I assume this is correct or tell me better if I am Wrong. 

I guess that Ragtopjohnny would get the best advices contacting a Vendor Like " Shana " who seems to have allot of texturing experiences and Legal Knowelage using Tatoo References on Clothings and skin as allot of her Products refere to that.( Might be worth a try ) and more then to Read our Debatings as Newbies on this theme.

@ LaurieA

thinking that I might be another Person  would give me the impression that you reflect what you actually are doing, thinking that I might do the same, but wrong! as we are Individuals and there is no coperable characteristics between us.

Helllooo wake up .... I am GATE and alway's was and no I'm not charl's bronson or Jack Nikolson, well rather a resemblance with Bill Gates Let me check the Mirror ...............

and again to clear your little confusion I never used the word Political that was MagnusGreel witch whent into the Wiki Page but as for there is allot to read hes brain could only register the line of the 20th century where the word Political was mentioned

 the phylosophical of the page was not unhderstandable. and phylosophy has actually nothing to do with polotex.

and who is actually trying to misslead the actual theme ... not me we are still debating if it is Possible to use a Tatoo reference for a Texturing !!!! 

Quote - OFFSIDE! Ref! that's politics! I call foul under Forum Policies! plus man.. use a spellchecker... (in Firefox, right click, spell check.)

  OFFSIDE theme

this is exactly what I mean , do you think because you spell better in your Mother Language that your IQ might be higher? well no rather a primitive answer of somone who cannot argue pretending he might know better , but I assume you could read what I wrote even that it contains some spelling mistakes :-)

and sure would not be a reason to be able to scare off any arguments

we are no rasits are we , what will be next ... the Avatar that Ragtopjohnny used he might of made more impression by using an Avatar from the Rock to get a little more respect from you guy's ( And may even of gotten a Positive approval for he's dream )

Quote - No we ain't. If you want to tell people it's OK to be a thief, it's your right to have that opinion. But would you promise us that if we used stolen work you'd cover us? You'd pay any fees or damages?

 PS = well said Laurie.

To avoid any missunderstandings what I wrote was not supporting any Piracy or any theft , rather to prevent it and also to make it understandable the use of references Like the ones for Tatoos

I do not know where you are have been  hanging arround to get the impression of theft but were not on the Dark side here.  assuming that "inked" was made based on References for Tatoo's why the heck could another one not do the same , just because Ragtopjohnny is sencere by asking ( And getting missleaded anwers ) and the other one never has to mention the facts ??

Or is it because there is a little good complex on those who are the Older creatores preventing newbies to get a chance for there creations?

Quote - Ugh. Whatever. Simple...US site, US laws. Period. No using anyone elses artwork without specific premission period.
Bye. Laurie

Well I guess everyone understud that :

Translation of  Simple...US site, US laws. ---->> No Matter how you might do it be aware that it could be used against you and be procecuted by Law ( Police State ) as everything can be Pretended as  Illegal act depending on the interpretation of  facts.

See ---->> Rhetoric

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetoric 

@ wimvdb

actually I just used Steam Punk as a simple sample , there are other samples witch could be recognized as copyright infrigement but noo need to mention as I also enjoy the beauty of the Graphics in here, even if i'd be slightly on the limmit of copyright.

@ All, as it seems we are all in agreement so @ Ragtopjohnny I would just use the tatoofragments you wish to use ( Best use Black and white and paint them :-)  .... witch I assume it already has been done Example shana Inked Vol1-8 in withch there is also no statement where the originall tatoo's came from and some seem to be verry popular common tattoo's.

there are also tatoocollection to be bought througout the Internet as reference for ones you wish to have on your skin, many are also Provided for free. Legal Usage ,there are also cheep Tatoomagazines witch provide also references to be used as soutch.

so no matter if you use this tatoo on a dool skinn on a t-shirt or on your skin they are free to be used. they are made for this Purpose, and not under Rendo or Daz Grafic  eula's

Mostly the references are Provided in Black and white some colored so that the user can color then on he's own taste.

to compair to a child's paintbook with BW references to be colored :-) 

@ Laurie ,

I sure inderstand the Fact , But why does then the one who sets up the rooles not fallow them them selve, by breaking there own rooles of termes , well there would be a simple answer for this.

There are just to many Rooles witch actually affect the creativity or ability to produce new stuff, all what those rooles say combining one article with another means , you can not do anything anymore without braking a Law , So we All are sort of Law breakers. cheating on our own Terms.

a simple concept of Power to be able to controll the mass. as I said before in your cauntry it would be against the law to use a brand , a signature of any kind  and to make any profit out of it " Steam Punk " would in this case be recognized as a Brand in witch those who pretend how severe copiright might be broke it them selves by abusing the opportunity gaining some monney out of it ( And no Credit has ever been given to the originall Brand Holder ) . we could see in here that every day there is approval of breaking our own rooles, so why prohipit something to one and allow it to another ??

Quote - ACTA was rejected by the EU until now. The aceptance of ACTA would mean that the copyright laws in the EU would be exactly the US laws and this was rejected by the European population.

Nope. Rejected by the EU government not the people :)

Actually the EU still is Democratic so the Folk decide as the govenment fallows them , People are govenment, compaired to the US in witch the People do as the Govenment say's. ( Sheep Folk ) 

A good example is the ACTA issue witch almost caused a Civil war in the US. and government beating the crap out of innocent civillians just because they stud for there own thoughts.

Quote - IPoser is illegal in Saudi Arabia.
Really? Thats interesting. Where did you read that?

  this is common Logic ... as those from the mentioned caunties can not get the merchandise in a legal way , and it would be a crime to sell a product onto a cauntry witch prohibits the usage Stores in most cases do not offer a product sale to those.

the people there also to protect them selves form a govenment check on there spendings are forced to go to the Dark side to get the whanted merchandise.

but this actually concerns the trading contracts between caunties.

each product has to be adapted to the cautries Law in witch it has been exported and there is no exuse of unknoweledge ( Export Laws)

Now if for example Kidds4 would be declared as a Pedophile Product throughout different cauntries in Europ DAZ would comit a Crime providing this figure to those Cautries. ( Ignorance is Bliss .. but not an excuse )

As for V4 WM how many people who whanted this to get true figured a way of Borrowing this from the Copyrightholder without hes full permission and it has been sucessfully done without allot of concequences. If it concerns a personal Product by the copyrightholder he mostly Barks out Loud but only to represent hes own thought of right.

Another example : One produces an Iron GYM puts it out on the Market on a 100$ as soon as he makes allot of sales others will fallow by copiing the Idea and they are allowed to do as sutch the form will varrie a little and especially the name or Brand , witch is the actuall copyright so those cant use the Name Iron Gym but will name the Product Pullup Gym and sell the Product to a lower Price.

Now the consumer , he will see the flood of the cheeper copy but still think well the originall might be better quality. if affordable still by the originall Product.

the Inventor does not bother about the Issue as they do not stand still fixing them selves on an old Idea rather use there energy for there next revolutionary Idea.

If ,as a sample, a great creator Like Aery Soul , and later on somone pops up  and makes the same style copying the idea people will still whant the Aery Soul Product as they are the Originall. or Steam Punk how manny Vendors fallowes the Idea as they smelled Big Monney. But who is the actuall copyrightholder of the Brand " Steam Punk " ???

Quote - But that's all that needed to be said kawecki. Just number 8. The rest rest don't matter for the OP.

Laurie

Actually Laury it is not only Nummber 8 as the redestributor witch exports products has to fallow the terms in witch cauntry he exports not the ones witch are valid in he's own. Accepting there terms the moment you sold the product to those.

so you have to be avare to whom you sell the product as you agree to there terms of usage as soon as you sold it to them.