Quote -  lol. That was horrible.

 

??? What is horrible?
Laslo  

Attached Link: http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/yhst-48396527764316/FaceShop4all.pdf

Confusion, confusion. Please watch the how-to movie or read the manual, it is all explained.

Movie:
http://abalonellc.com/watchdemovideo.html
(Import FaceShop Faces in Poser)

Manual:
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/yhst-48396527764316/FaceShop4all.pdf

Laslo

 

**lisarichie
It pains me that you mistake me for a politician. I am a software developer and has been for 20 some years. We are trying to develop a good solution for a needed product. As the former Marketing Director for Poser, I noticed how poorly Poser's FaceRoom performs. Hence came the idea in 2006 to develop a system that:

1. Works on ALL heads, not just some
2. Works better than FaceRoom.
   Thus we developed FaceShop. It is not perfect, I agree. Neither are any of the competing products (FaceGen, for example, costing a lot more).
   Why are there no perfect solutions? Because the premise - to make a solid 3D head based on a photograph - is very difficult. 
   I think we have made progress since FS 3.1 was introduced in 2007. FaceShop 5.0 is due in November and will have new tools that should help. We will continue to make progress. We will never be perfect, as there are many variables that influence the end product. One is the skill and artistry of the person wielding these tools.
   I've been working with FaceShop for 3 years and can still make mistakes. When that happens, I don't give up or start a blame game, just sit down and try to figure out what went wrong and then do it again.
   I don't recommend that everyone takes this route - there are people who do not have the time or inclination. For those who do, I believe that FaceShop can be a very rewarding experience.
   Sincerely,
   Laslo** 

Momodot,
You are right on target. This is one of the things we are doing for FS 5.0.
Laslo  

Quote - It's well to say that, but why so late !

Since i buy it, it sleep in a dark place of my hd ...

Maybe wake him up?
Could be fun.....
Laslo  

and in DS,  

Here's the result  

Here are a few quick tips:

1. Head shaped like potato happens when lines are abruptly terminated: it sometimes helps to draw the outlines of the head ALL THE WAY to the top of the head (the two outlines meet on top).
   I also started with a M4 already squinting.
2. 3/4 photos. They should work fine. Please make sure that after you place the dots, the head's orientation is the same as the photo. This is important.
3. I noticed that when drawing the nose, the less you draw is the better. What is meant is that the best is to draw just under the nose but not up the sides. (see illustration).
    

 

 

Quote - Hey Laslo. Do you have an update of tips&tricks for FaceShop. Best practice etc. More reference points, less points, circle the eyes, etc. To be honest I was getting good results at the start but my accuracy has gone down not up... I am getting crumpled deformed mesh now but I can not ascertain what bad habits I have fallen into to cause it. For those of us struggling with the app it would be great if you could induce who ever it is doing best with it to share their experience and knowledge.

We should be able to update "tricks and Tips" for the upcoming FaceShop 5.0 (late November).
My take is that the more detailed line you draw, the better the results.
I have also learned that if I have two photos (front and profile), I will try to make two separate morphs and then "mix and match" in either Studio or Poser.
Laslo  

Carodan,
Very insightful.
Indeed, the step where you combine front and profile makes it more difficult in many instances.
Fortunately, there's a workaround:
Do two separate morphs (on front and one profile) and blend the in either Studio or Poser.
This is what we recommend with the new FaceAge program.
(Obviously there are still texture issues to smooth, etc. but that is not that hard for an average Photoshop user).
Laslo

 

 

Quote - Deecey - thanks for posting the untextured version from FaceGen. It's not such a bad starting morph - as you say, with some tweaking it'd be rather good. So what is the workflow inside FaceGen (assuming we already have the model inside)?

Quote -
There are some technical reasons for recommending a dial back (of course you can use 100% of the morph if you wish).

Laslo - it'd be useful if you could actually state some of these 'technical reasons' rather than being so vague all the time. I suggest these reasons are really to do with some of the things that are 'technically' wrong with FaceShop, but then I suppose this is open to debate.

An honest answer to an honest question:
While there's nothing "technically wrong" with FaceShop, it uses a very different workflow from FaceGen. In Facegen, the system finds a likely match for a picture from 200 or so meshes. This works well on average heads, not so well with older or very different ones (think Winston Churchill).
FaceShop relais on tracing outlines of features. Depending on how many points you put down or how carefuly, your result my be great or may be rough.
Not going full 100% on the dial eliminates some roughness.
If you go the long route (zoom in, folow outlines, put down plenty of points), the dial back may not be necessary at all.
I hope this answers your question.
Laslo  

Quote - Laslo ... I think FaceShop has a LOT of potential, which is one of the reasons I tried to like it. I like that it can use any figure, but my main area of disappointment is the resulting morph.

After you said that FaceShop 4 had a morph brush, I went to look at the videos. I see a lot of changes have been added since I stopped using FaceShop, which is good!  It's heading in the right direction.

Now ... the application goes a long way in TRYING to achieve the proper face shape. And with the addition of the morph brush that's a good thing too. BUT ... and this is a really big BUT ... in the end, once the morph is in DAZ Studio or Poser, the user is advised to dial the morphs back down to somewhere between .5 and .7.

Yes, dialing it back does improve the appearance of the MORPH, but it also defeats the purpose of using the morph brush to add all that fine detail. What happens as a result is that  you are dialing OUT all of the character detail that you wanted to add IN, and the result becomes a blend of the figure you wanted, and the default character.

FaceShop is getting CLOSER, but it would be so much better if the morph was useable at a setting of 1. Otherwise, the morphing feature in FaceShop doesn't accomplish what I'd like to see it accomplish.

I say this with a great amount of respect for the product in hopes that it might one day become something that I would consider upgrading again. 8-)

Deecey,

As you know, I like and respect your work a lot. There are some technical reasons for recommending a dial back (of course you can use 100% of the morph if you wish).

With our new, upcoming FaceAge (http://abalonellc.com/faceage-10.html) that debuts next week here at Rendo, we recommend a "mix and match" of several morphs to achive optimal results.  

Attached Link: http://abalonellc.com/faceshop-pro.html

> Quote - Okay, I´m giving up on the links :) People can find hires images right? > > I´m thinking about skipping the aggravation of using FaceShop and doing the morph using V4's ++Morphs and the Ultra Head morphs from RDNA then refining it in Argile.  It will be interesting to see how close I can get that way.

Not to argue your point but:

1. Many people don't have the enhanced V4.2 ( I know I don't)
2. FaceShop can work with any head (Aiko, Jessi, David, etc), not just V4.2.
   This is why we developed it in the first place.
   As for frustrations; like with everything else, there's a learning curve. Over the past years (FS3.1, FS3.5, FS 3.7, FS 4.0) we tried everything to make FaceShop more user-friendly and we will continue to do so.
   Laslo
    

Attached Link: http://abalonellc.com/faceshop-pro.html

> Quote - "OK I do have my authorization key as of this morning and took a first stab at the front photo and the good left profile photo from the previous links. > > After a couple of minutes in FaceGen I have a pretty decent likeness ... I'd be glad to post it once we decide whether or not we are doing Cate. > > However ... while it's recognizeable as Cate, I'd still probably do more. As Carodan and I were discussing earlier, these automatic face programs are great for a start, but they don't allow for the VERY fine detailed shapes around mouth, eyes, nose, etc that you would need to get a perfectly exact likeness. Comparing the "automatic" morph to the photos side by side, I see areas in shape of the nostrils, lips, and cheeks that I'd like to refine further, even though the original state of the morph is recognizeable as Cate I'd like to take it even further, either by using V4's built-in morphs or by taking it into Mudbox. These are types of detailed tweaks that neither FaceGen or FaceShop address and they would have to be done if either program was being used at the start". > > So what I may do is show the results in stages.

**
I disagree with that last statement. FaceShop 4.0 has a morphBrush and a TextureBrush.
MorphBrush allows you to tweak any shape, TextureBrush allows you to tweak any texture.
Laslo** 

 

Attached Link: FaceShop "Tricks and Tips"

Granted, it is not the "Make Art" button, but there are a lot of people who took time to learn it and got fantastic results. Here's a link to some: http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/contests/0/-/?id=21

Also, maybe read the "Tricks and Tips":
http://abalonellc.com/faceshop-pro.html
Laslo