Heh, I tried to tell them that their damn session ID and wotnot was causing seriously screwed up problems some months ago. I got fobbed off with "we're looking into it"... and guess what? Nothing was done, nobody ever came back with anything more than the "we're looking into it". And now another predictable problem shows how it's messed up - seriously messed up. It would have been better if the response had been more honest "thankyou for pointing this out, but we don't give a damn".

Unfortunately lucstef you completely missed the point. Oh well, not like that's a new thing either. You'll do very well in the forums, perfect material. :) Carolly: Yes, Wombles are eminently edible, actually quite tasteful when served correctly. The older ones can be somewhat chewy and gamey but stewing with a good wine and some subtle spices fixes that problem. I used to have some very good recipes for cooking wombles, I'll have to see if I can find them. :)

kerfuffle. Fuss, confusion, mess, brain fart... :) Colloquiolism from the nether regions of the UK where civilised people fear to tread - in case they get their feet wet - or worse...

Yes I did, it looks like a full version renderer. So, I'm now officially clueless. :) At least you had a laugh out of all this kerfuffle. :)

Kelderek: True, but the other site didn't say Poser couldn't make art either (or at least hadn't when I last read the thread - barring the drooling praise of poser from the support mob). Technically though, it can't. :) The very limitations of poser preclude any "real" art coming out of it without postwork to correct the very functional errors created by the program's limitations. So, in a technical sense "Poser cannot create art", that's not to say someone using it can't, but I would suggest that the employment of other applications to compensate for the failings in Poser would be essential. As regards your observation how porn always pops up in a thread about poser art. You're right, it does, frequently as a further put down. And normally, some wet wally will trot out the old masters and some famous names to help themselves feel better. I almost die laughing everytime I see someone compare Poser to Michaelangelo etc. Doesn't make it any better, but at least it's consistent. smirk Unfortunately, as you're probably aware, poser has a nasty reputation for cookie cutter, and fantasy porn. If the users of the software and the various people making images from it can get themselves away from that and reduce the quantity of that material they might have a stronger stance to beat down the "elitists" with. Unfortunately with so many site galleries and so many store items geared simply towards sexual fantasy it's going to be a hard slog to gain credibility for an application that is perfectly useful in a work pipeline. Rubbermatt: Sorry old chap, I happen to disagree with you. I would suggest that those who bark the loudest are those who spent frightening amounts of money on their applications only to have someone come along with less and prove their money wasted. I don't much like the image that started this discussion but I can admire the technical aspects of it. Starting from a poser base and using photoshop to create that shows talent, certainly a lot more than I've got. From a newcomer, using a cheap low end package... That's gotta smart when you splashed out thousands of dollars and can't do it.

Well, you'll be happy to know I'm confused as well, because at least one person I spoke to this evening was quite adamant that the renderer in Maya sucked like a wind tunnel. I'll have to ask what version he's using and see if the current version carries the full renderer or a cut down offering.

Strangely enough Kelderek, regardless of your incredible observational capabilities, nobody said Poser couldn't be used for art. In fact I don't see that statement anywhere here. Pornography was mentioned because that is the overwhelming style of imagery submitted to several magazines of which 3DWorld is one and the grounding source of many people's impression of the software. Thank you for your frothing, try again later.

One option is available from Pixar https://renderman.pixar.com/products/tools/index.htm Renderman is really a set of compliance guidelines created by Pixar that are employed by render engines. That's the home of it. From there you'll find a couple recommendations as well as Pixar's own offerings. Mental Ray which is renderman compliant is available from http://www.mentalimages.com/ Product page http://www.mentalimages.com/2_1_0_mentalray/ There are other options available and it might be worth checking around.

You'll have to check in the Maya forum or at one of the other CG websites (CGTalk etc) because I'm not certain. However most people I've spoken to who have Maya complain quite bitterly about the built in render options and several of those have invested in Renderman or similar. The last I heard the standard IPR renderer included with Maya 6 is faster than before, but still doesn't have raytracing enabled and still isn't entirely satisfactory. Which leaves Mental Ray, Renderman etc as sensible requirements.

Speaking of car shows and things popping out of the trunk. If you get five minutes check out the new Toyota vehicles at the Tokyo car show. Pop out of the trunk? These things have stuff popping out all over the place. Three Toyota vehicles have display wardrobes, clothes hangers and display boxes built into them, another has a mobile disco that comes out of the side... Funny how things said in jest come about, neh? No wonder Jaguar owners are nervous. The thing in front might be a Toyota but you really don't know what's going to pop out of it. :)

The other thing you need to consider with Maya will be the extra expense of purchasing a renderer. The built in render engine leaves quite a bit to be desired and as far as I know doesn't offer radiosity a couple other production tools. My personal taste ran to Cinema and I've not been disappointed with it yet - although I paid a tad more than it's offered for now. :(

Just one further comment regarding 3DWorld and Poser. They held a competition some time back to create a prop in Poser which they would then distribute on the cd. They had literally hundreds of submissions. Next time you talk to the Editor at 3DWorld Mag, ask him what the most common poser submission is. His answer will most likely be the same as it was during that competition. Pornography. They had so many sex toys and bondage bits submitted they wondered what the hell they'd opened the flood gates to. They can't print most of the poser submissions they get, during the competition they couldn't distribute most of the items they got. I find that rather sad. That alone says far more about poser and it's users than anything else. Think about it. Poser users want respect, yet what is the single most common application of Poser?

While not a lot of "art" from Poser has made it into 3DWorld - not a lot of so-called art is worth the bother however, that magazine has always been poser friendly. They don't demean the program, they don't slam the users of that program they don't ban art from that program, but neither will they display nekkid big titted broads rendered from stock materials. Often though people will submit pictures credited as rendered in Max, Maya, Lightwave" and don't often bother with "I made it in poser" because poser was the smallest part of the creation process. With Poser being such a cripplingly limited application it's rather difficult NOT to use something else when you're attempting to do professional or quality work. That's not to knock your achievement Lillian, but I've seen work from Gevidal in there (Bryce isn't exactly high end) and a couple other people using "cheap" software, and 3DWorld Magazine has been more than aware of Poser since issue 1. In fact they've been accused on several occassions of being Poser centric. Go figure.

Make sure the camera - mirror - character alignment is set up so she reflects on the surface and that it's not the background reflecting (a common mistake)

Remember, the line of site between the camera and the mirror is the angle the mirror will reflect at. So if the camera is at 30 degrees to the mirror, it will reflect whatever is 30 degress offset from the the other side. If the figure is 90 degress perpendicular to the mirror and you have a 30 degree camera angle, you won't see the figure in the mirror. So you'll need to play with camera angles as well. Looking at what you've got there, I'm not convinced you'll reflect the woman.

The other thing to consider is the surrounding environment. If you are rendering just those two figures against a black background the mirror will reflect the black, same with whatever other colour you choose because that is the environment colour.

Also make sure the character is lit from the back as well or the reflection will look strange because it's shadowed.

I've got a more complex mirror tutorial lurking around my system somewhere, I'll see if I can hunt it up.

The image is just a quick example. Three planes with the above settings rendered against a black background. Reflection does work, it just takes a bit of tweaking and fiddling to get what you want.

Message edited on: 11/12/2004 07:32

Softimage XSI. Production professional level program which comes with quite a few things that other software make you pay extra for. http://www.softimage.com/home/ Maya is an extremely powerful piece of software, lots of scripts and plugins and a huge investment in time and money, not to mention training. You "can" learn the software yourself but training is assumed to be necessary because of the program's complexity. Test drive the PLE version. Cinema 4D also a professional level production app, Several movies have employed Cinema for CG components and a couple have used it exclusively. Also lots of options but you'll find that you will need some of the module additions in order to do things. Great software though. Demo available, currently just released in Version 9. In the end it's a personal choice what you buy. I'd suggest you check out the demo versions first and see which one suits you before you lay out vast sums of cash