"Dendras made the physical threats, while Legume merely said F*ck you, and called me and others names." LOL. My bad- you shouldn't snipe two people in the same thread, it's confusing. Arrest dendras, ignore legume. There. "But you will only see what you wish to see. Again, your very actions only serve to confirm the charges I've made. Thanks for your cooperation." Nothing will convince you that the sole purpose of this thread, and even some artists' existence isn't to personally wound you, will it? That's sad. You've incited your argument. Do you feel righteous enough for one day, now?

WS- what do you mean, allowed? You don't allow anyone to make anything. What would matter would be any action they commit which could be considered child molestation, unless you refer to the creation of child pornography, which is a very different matter. Both are illegal. The creation of art of unspecified content is not. Otherwise, we would have to arrest anyone who makes hentai. You cannot prevent any sort of crime by forbidding people any means of expression which presents their interpretation of the crime or its rammifications, if that be lterature or art.

Now where's my check? ;]

"Okay, so this is my point. Why did you take action in this instance?" It's about context. There is a difference between an interpreable(sp?) media (art) being displayed in a place meant for it (with attendant content warnings), and defacement of public signs. I still have the photo I took of that somewhere- if I put the photo in my gallery, it would be art. RonKnights, if Legume's actions were as evil as that, by all means, have the man arrested, banned, whatever you can do. You say you have evidence. Why not use it? Back up your accusations. Or admit you are unwilling to do so, and retract them.

PZRITE: YEAH, WAY UP THERE- CAN YOU HEAR ME? ;] If I saw an image that really offended me, you know, I would probably shake my head, and wonder at some people, but other than that- do nothing. Unless it was in a sufficient context to actually presage the possibility that it implies action- I saw once where someone had painted an intersection sign to look like a shwastika- I immediately went to the nearby Jewish Community Center (they have a great gym) and told them. They unpainteed it. I have a teendency to jump to conclusions at times- when I first started posting here, I got into it in a minor way with Legume. I realised, however, that I was hitting people over the head with my standards, which doesn't work. During that, Legume was never once rude, and I have come to see him as intelligent, posessing of an odd view, and somewhat likely to go off when virulently attacked (like who isn't.) RonKnighs, for deity-of-your-choice's sake, chill. So you got an IM that was rude- that doesn't mean you have to go into a sustained fit. You're only going to wear yourself out, and not accomplish anything, other than to make people cringe when they see your name in a thread. I'm not saying this to be hateful, though you may take it that way- I just like you alot better when you make sense. Your constant attacks on Legume are getting ridiculous. If you are after something, say it! What do you want from this situation? You seem to be very skilled at walking into a conversation and inciting people as much as possible, merely for the purpose of turning it into what you percieve as a personal attack against you. This then gives you the right to lash out in whatever manner in your "defense". However, that's kind of like stepping into the road and fighting the cars because they tried to run you over. Well, duh!

Oh, "we know" means we know you think something along those lines, not we know it's unfit for viewing. ;]

Where are you going with this, pzrite? To let us know that you find Legume's art unfit for public viewing, basically? Ok, we know. Now what? Do you think on the basis of your opinion, that instead of according you the discernment granted most adults, it should be removed from the site so that it won't offend you? Then contact Tim, or tammy, and make your case.If not that, then what resolution do you want?

You've said your piece, then, and expressed your desires. The PTB can take it from here. Realise, however, that one person's word may not be enough to establish that a particular work is created for hate's sake. The artist claims it was not, I believe.

What this illustrates for me is how few people who preach the defense of a certain social group from offense do so with any degree of sincerity. So, Mr. Pzrite- you take it as your duty to protect the rights and conscience of black, homosexual, and christan persons whom you assume will be harmed in some manner should they view certain artworks. In that case, I have a few points I would like clarified. Firstly, who asked you? If the answer is "no one", then admit that you speak for yourself. Good enough. In that case you wish to protect yourself from offense or harm by viewing these artworks. Don't look at them. But for the deity of your choice's sake, stop hiding behind socially acceptable rationalization to justify your essentially saying "I don't like this art, take it down." Easily done- buy Renderosity.

It's kind of funny how complicated it gets- I don't see it as being that complex. You buy a piece of software. Purchase gives you certain rights. Those rights are outlined in the liscence. If you want to do something to or with the program or item, look in the liscence if you aren't sure if its kosher. If it has a clear answer, there you go. If it doesn't, ask the liscence issuer to clarify, and go by what they say. If you want rights above and beyond the liscence, work it out with the liscensor- it's their baby. I think "warez" is an inaccurate term to use in serious situations- it's slang, for one; and by its nature it implies that there is a difference between a program that someone "acqiures" improperly (i.e. without payment) and a stereo someone acquires improperly (i.e. through the window). The manner of acquisition may be different, but the action is the same, the intent is the same, and the crime is the same. All fancy slang aside, stealing is stealing. I mean, cmon- do you call a stolen car "wheelz"? ;]

...if Steve is Bill's brother's uncle's nephew, and Bill marries Person A, does Steve still have to buy a wedding gift? ;] Let me simplify what I was saying: If you buy a product, and want to modify it for your use, fine. (Just don't cry warranty if it breaks.) If you want to sell the modification, ask permission. The creator will let you know if they have any restrictions or requirements. (That should cover Steve.) If there is a product out there you want, and it doesn't come in the format you need, either request it, make friends with a guru and ask them how to convert it, or find something else that will do the job. If someone tells you how to modify your own, cool. If they sell you a modification with the creator's permission, and you buy the original from the creator, great. Otherwise, no.(Got it, Bill?) Oh BTW... congrats, Bill. And Steve- try china, it always works. ;]

...BTW, in the above scenario, if "A" buys, Bill's problem is solved for a small amount. If not, then Bill needs to open the old brainbox, and do for himself what Steve did, or ask Steve how he did it, step by step. Now, if Steve had just printed the information, "Make program X work for this" with a disclaimer saying "do not redistribute... rights belong to... blabla" it would be all good, especially if he had contacted "A" prior to doing so, and let him know, and gotten an all-clear. If in doubt, ask. And always work with the preson who controls the righs- they are the last word.

"Steve" should have contacted "person A" and informed him of what he had done, then offered to let "A" sell the modified version in return for a small residual "improvement" fee. Who knows, "A" may have said, "thank goodness, you've saved me so much work". At worst, he would have said, "that's great, I can't use it right now, here's my position on redistributing just the modification".

"Undead! Undead!"

This is cool. It's the first time I've seen the guest of honor hog all the food at his own wake! ;]