Don't let them drag you down to their level. I'm more concerned with him dragging people down to his level. What a fine example to set to newbies isn't it? Flippancy, contempt, obfuscation and meaningless rhetoric. No wonder so many threads have irrelevant or controversial comments in them when this is the example set by "respected old timers". Phah!

No you didn't Dave-so, I'm sorry if I gave the impression I was accusing you of having done so, it was generalised reference to the start of this thread. Heh, maybe it is the lawyers who should be ranted at, they after all have a vested interest in making things as complex as possible to earn as much money as possible and justify their ridiculous fees. :)

Well for myself... It's because I don't have a life, have time to waste and don't sleep much. And because I'm just naturally a nosy SOB who has a nasty habit if sticking a nose where it doesn't belong. Can't speak for anyone else though.

I agree with you Dave-so, it is in the best interests of everyone to have these two companies working together rather than as seperate entities. And, yes my decisions to purchase something would also, like yours be influenced on whether they work in a given application. To my knowledge though, Vickie and Mike etc work just fine in Poser 5, they just don't work in the Face Room, MAT files have a problem in that CL changed the materials around somewhat. But to slam someone for not supporting something they can't use is ludicrous. Would it be fair for me to attack Billy-T, or Anton, or DaCort because their models don't work properly in Poser 3 and they don't support that version? Isn't that the same thing? All those Poser 3 users who haven't upgraded yet who can't use transparencies etc. I feel that the P4/P5 issue is the same as P3/P4 Some things just can't be helped, but you don't see Poser 3 users littering the forum with complaints because they have an issue with something that's built for P4. This situation to my mind is the same. The models concerned were built for poser 4 and it should be expected that there may well be issues in Poser 5 with some of them. That the huge amount of discussions here and elsewhere where Daz has stated several times that they can't at this time support Poser 5 or make content for it - as well as the same statement from several other vendors - has been missed completely is puzzling to me. It's not like it's been any kind of a secret and the subject of P5 compatibility has been brought up several times in this and other forums. Seems to me that someone just wanted to rant and start another argument. I guess the existing ones are getting too long or boring. :)

Dialyn: You're right, there are some moderators here who do a sterling job, Crescent for example and a few others. But there is always one who decides he's funny and won't talk normally, rather just making blind comments and sweeping statements while smirking at his cleverness. Jeff has revealed himself to be one of those. My dislike of his behaviour in this thread doesn't alter my opinion of the moderators here who do show respect and are "up-front". My opinion of at least one moderator here though has undergone major revision. Yes, respect works both ways, it's always been a two way street. You can't get what you don't give. But I refuse to give what isn't earned and especially when everything is treated with contempt and flippancy. Take Spike for example. His responses to the majority of threads is one line. "We're dealing with this" or something similar. There's a reason I don't take off after him for not answering a question with a straight answer. That reason is simple. While I might not like that kind of answer I appreciate that Spike is busy and has a lot on his plate. So, I don't snipe at him (very often) and I don't make an endless point of it. He has a job to do and mostly does it pretty well. A pity that others don't set their own examples by people like crescent and others here. But would rather gratuitously label people in general as morons, blocks of unclarified messages as crap, and claim it's all "so much extra baggage". I expect that sort of nonsense from an ordinary member who has little or nothing to lose, not from an "official", a representative of this site. That's something else entirely. If jeff has such contempt for the members of this site then perhaps he should take a break or move on to something that isn't such a terrible burden.

That's cool. I hadn't checked their free download page at the time of writing. That's very good news indeed. Nice to see the banner ads going as I personally hate the damn things. :) Thanks for the info AlbertoFly. :)

So Daz won't support models in Poser 5. Does Maxon support Poser figures imported to their application? Or Newtek? Or Discreet? Or anyone else? If you don't have it, you can't support it because you don't know what it does or how it works. If someone write to me about one of my models in, for instance 3DSMax or Lightwave I don't have a clue how to help them. Poser 5 is the same. If you don't own it, you can't offer support for it. If you don't use it, you can't give support for it. Does Curious Labs offer support for all the Daz products seeing as it's their application things are used in? No? Why? Because they don't own all of them, don't use all of them and didn't make them. I understand the frustration, I've had problems importing Poser figures into Bryce but I don't write to Corel screaming at them about it, nor do I write to Daz screaming at them about it. Because I don't expect them to support it. I do however ask in a forum HOW to do something if I can't figure it out. This applies to other models or characters I might make in the future. I don't own Poser 5, so can't support it. I guess that makes me a mean nasty POS as well because I'd have to tell someone "Sorry, can't answer your question, you're on your own." That's why I state it on my site. As far as I know Daz have a similar statement on their site in the FAQ, maybe elsewhere.

(Quote) **** We don't want to be kicking the behive here in any way, but feel that it is important to mention that we did not pull our products from the Marketplace. We had the Victoria and Michael CD's here because we felt it would be more convenient for some customers to be able to purchase them in one order (along with the other great Victoria and Michael related products sold here). We would love to have the new Victoria 2 and Michael 2 CD's available here if we could. Sincerely, Dan Farr **** If we could? So why can't they? Stop the rumour mill? You have got to be kidding, that's not possible, it has a life all of it's own. :)

I agree they do deserve better treatment SO DO THE MEMBERS OF THIS SITE Without the members all you moderators become immediately redundant. You'd just be sitting around here doing sweet FA. You treat the members better and stop bullshitting them and maybe you will get better treatment. But I suppose that little piece of logic is too much of a stretch for you.

LOL @ MadYuri

Vicky3 in the works which will surely be Poser5 compatible Check Daz's site, check this forum, read some of the posts. Vickie 3 will not be poser 5 compatible. Daz are not supporting Poser 5 nor will they ever support Poser 5 because of legal reasons until those legal reasons are addressed by Curious Labs. That information is freely available on two forums and the Daz website including a couple of posts by Dan Farr in this forum confirming it.

Interesting post Mr. Weinberg, interesting. One thing though. "But we have no hidden agenda with our EULA. We've stated it many times." You can state it in the forums until you're blue in the face and people's eyes are bleeding, it means nothing here. It means EVERYTHING on your EULA. YOU, might not decide to enforce any of the potential within your EULA. But who's to say that someone buying the company or product won't? Sorry, reassurances are so much vapour when they're posted in a place like this. Who's to say that in 6 months you haven't been bought out by another company MUCH more militant who WILL enforce the legal verbiage? Not going to happen? Hostile and non-hostile take-overs happen all the time. Don't mean to be belligerent but too many reassurances have failed to materialise as well as promises that haven't happened. It makes for a jaundiced audience. We'll see. There's still a lot to happen yet and the next few months will be very interesting indeed, not least of which will be Content Paradise and some other developments that are occurring. As for Daz. I find your words curious. You complement them and say you're working together in one hand while sniping at them with some clever rhetoric in the other hand. However that's all moot really. It's nice to see something from someone who still has some justified respect comment on this, and I agree wholeheartedly with some of the other people here that yes, you guys do need to lose a few minutes development time to answer the generous people in the beta forum who are trying to help you, it's nothing more than respect and common decency to answer them, even if it's just a few seconds to say "thank you, got that"... in a thread. Think about it. You'll find some of the flak might die off if you make that small effort.

The advertising will stay on the free download page as far as I'm aware - to offset the cost of the bandwidth used by that page. The main home page (thank the gods) has been cleaned up, the banners removed and made to look more attractive. Yes, you're right it's MUCH more pleasant to look at. Hopefully now that the banners have gone and the content is more on display it'll encourage people to sign up where they've been nervous of it before. There is NO advertising inside the subscription area. NONE. But it's not easy to judge that considering how overloaded the home page was with banners. If you like the new look of the front page for Poserworld. Please write to allen@the-internet-eye.com and tell him. He's the one who decides how that page looks.

LOL. I doubt they'll lock the thread yet. More than likely just hope that it'll die on it's own. I'm not convinced of that as there are other issues at hand that haven't been answered. The definition of "tagging" has been, to my satisfaction anyway. Now we just need to find another moderator to browbeat into sharing relevant information about stuff. Crescent may have set a very dangerous precedent. I don't know about anyone else here but I'm not used to straight answers from Renderosity moderators. :)

The majority of moderators on this site are paid for their services - not a lot, but they are paid. If you are an exception to that norm Jeff, then fair enough, but moderators tend to get lumped into the general group of "Moderators" and moderators on Renderosity receive payment for what they do. In store credit, cheque or whatever other means are agreed upon with the PTB. Same with admin and other staff here. Perhaps Ironbear did read what you say but chose to believe the majority rule rather than the reasons you flippantly threw into this thread.