Wow!  That certianly gives one pause, and I did look at the list of morphs for V4 before my previous posts.  I don't understand though, if I read the list of morphs correctly arent there a varietly of morphs like "fitness" and "athletic" for example?

There does, admitidly, not seem to be all the creative options in terms of type of morph as with V3 but it appears that is going to be made for in different character packs (I'm just speculating) but there was at least one pack out there with a non-white ethnicity.

My guess is that the reason alot of the morphs for ethnicity, basic aliens and creatures, etc. are all missing is because DAZ either plans to offer a morph expansion kit at some point, or perhaps they figure that people will be more inclined towards buying different characters in order to get more options.

I'm not saying the V4 model has everything I'd have liked to have seen in a model, and yes the scaled back list of morphs did look a bit dispointing,  but I still think that in general V4 is going to be replacing V3 on alot of things.  So any features of the V4 are again added bonuses, but having at least a baseline V4 model for upcoming product compatibilty may prove essential.

'Kays betters and thanx cruzin for talking with me tonight.  And I do think some progress has been made, but it's not an easy process.  I do think it's important to keep trying to clear confusion.  

Alot of people still seem to be under the impression that even the basic no morphs applied A3 can't be nude, but if I read correctly my understanding is that's not the case, so that's something.  And I think it stands to reason that some of the morphs can be applied safely.

She looks beautifull as does the scene and the sunlight effect is gorgous, really wonderfull job and a excellent example of V4 use ^^

Yes all the reviews have been postive, AS who has terrific products was quoted I think in the review as saying they'd be designing all their new products with V4 compatability.   And I'd agree the Pro bundle is the way to go in my opinion.  More expensive (especially if your NPCM) but it's a question of future compatibility more then anything that's driving me towards this rather then the actuall improvements although they are a nice.

The deals on the bundle are going till after christmas I believe so she'll still be there.  I've been saving what small amount I can set aside hoping for holiday sales, but I'm sorely tempted myself to spend it all on the bundle because I think that is ultimatly the best deal to go for if you can afford it.

Basicly if you plan to stay on top of new products and outfits particullarly from DAZ but also I suspect from venders on alot of sites, it's probably better to get her now while she's on sale then later.

I think it's fair to say that if you look at what happened when V3 came out in terms of V2 and for that matter V1 one V2 came out and so on there's a fair amount of evidence that says that gradually the shift will come towards V4 compatible products replacing the current focus of V3 ones.

Now having said that, I'd also point out there are so many V3 products out there I'd like to have I could probably spend a great deal of time on just those and I personally as I imagion many people do already have a pretty good V3 orientated liberary both in terms of commercial and also free products.

The new improvements on the V4 model look great, but certianly if one choose too one could get along with V3 for quite awhile yet.

With the variety of V4 packages being offered however, and the fact that most vendors like to stay on the for-front of compatibility over the next year or so you'll probably begin to see more and more V4 products and fewer and fewer new V3 ones.

So for artists/consumers it's not going to be just a question of just getting V4 for the improvements offered to her mesh and so on, but also for continuing to have a base figure that is going to be compatible with new product lines.

Certianly this won't be a overnight shift, but is kinda inevitable.  In short if and when you can afford it, I'd say it's a healthy investment.  Also from what I hear the V4 base mesh is being offered free to Platnum Club members (lucky stiffs) over the weekend and many of those are people who also design products both at DAZ and here, so many will have it at their fingertips to start in right away designing new products for it.  And the V3 base mesh is no longer going to be available free to new customers (although the version that comes with the base content for DAZ studio is still apart of the free content package).

Don't know if any of this helps and depending on what you're going for it can be a sizable investment, so certianly give it some thought.  It'll still be there tommorow at the same prices. I plan to at least sleep on it first although if I was a PC member I'd probably have already downloaded the base mesh and bought the companion packages. Goodluck! ^^

Doh! Just like them to give it out free on a club I can't join.  Oh well.

I've been checking your store every day in hopes it will be up  sigh

Just tried out the new version and did a test render... I likes it!  And now the new V4... and V3 is no longer a free model... an' an' oh what to do what to do? So many changes and I'd just finished building a fair V3 liberary of clothing, props and stuffs (not that those are obsolete mind you, the V4 can be used with a V3 body from what it says just like V3 had a V3 to V2.) It's very exciting but also a huge investment (if you're getting the bundle which seems ultamitly the best deal).  I know there's people who already have her and have started rendering, I'm off to check out the galleries now! So very exciting! ^^

The cute series of smilies at the bottem of your post is great especially if you imagion each expression change being accompanied by a new click with the mouse only to get the same error messages. ^^

Oh, ya, and I get them all the time but it usually clears up after a bit.

I just want to make it real clear I had nothing to do with this.

Cruzin I'll stand by my decision on your character's age, but I've removed that and every other image of yours from my favorites and deleted my comments from those images.  I can't support this type of behavior. 

I'm not going to say anything else right now.

Okay, gonna try gonna try gonna try.

I looked long and hard at this render because I think it's important sometimes not just to go with an initial impression or feeling.  You are asking for an age range.   If you are asking in relation to general anime and what an artist might do to try to show a character as being in an adult range then yes, I would say that in terms of general body proptions yes, I'd have no problem with booting her into the adult age range. 

Here's what I think is primarily throwing people: The lower half of her face.  Body is fine, upper part of the head's fine, uniform top is not neccersarilly indictive of being young.  Backround and the chibi character beside her, also take them out of the equation because THEY SHOULD MEAN NOTHING in terms of judging the character's apparent age.

Okay so here's what I did, I completly covered up her head first, and asked myself, just based on the body if I was asked to judge, as you are, if it belonged to a child or an adult, I'd say an adult.  So that's the short answer on the body portion.

Next I took the head and hair.  Hair is fine as is I think not really an deciding factor.  So then I zeroed in on the face.  Upper portion from the forhead to the bottem of the eyes is fine, I don't think there can be a age detraction made on that basis.

So the lower portion: This I see is the only potential problem area and judging by some of the reactions I'd guess that's probably what swayed alot of people in favor of an underage ruling despite the mature body, hair and upper head regions.

So let's take a look at that area shall we for potential problem areas.  Okay to begin with the shape of the face is a very rounded one and the shadows reinforce it.  Almost no definition to cheeks bone structure (sorry Cruzin I'm doing my best here, this isn't easy okay I don't like picking apart other people's work hopefully you'll see my intent) and the lips are very full and close to the nose, which is also quite pert.  The chin also has a lack of definition.

None of these, in themselves would be a major point of age contention, I think, but when put all togeather the end result is that the lower part of her face has a somewhat underdeveloped effect which gives her overall face a kind of cheruby look to it, and is rings some of the classic indicators for some folks that she is potentially very young.

BUT and I'm just as sorry as heck about this but I can't agree with those who've decided that she must constitute a girl in her early to midteens.  My ruling on this, which of course means not a fricking thing but it's still my dang voice and by gosh I'm going to use it, do you hear me?! I'm going to use it!  Because the sadest part in this whole dang thing are the people that backed away when they got slapped in the face and now are silent or cower in fear of the "report" button.

Not me.  What's right is right.  No Cruzin, in my judgement, and it was not an easy one to make, while the render gives the viewer pause, it does not ultimatly in my opinion and despite it's handycaps constitute a underage girl, but rather a healthy and mature woman perhaps in her late teens to eary twenties but I'd have a real problem with agreeing to her being classed as younger then that.

Why? Show me a twelve or thirteen your old in a anime or manga of you're choice that's done with the same bodily proportions and general character structuring.  Traditionally it's just not done.  Realism doesan't really enter into it.  Just because someone knew a girl back in highshool or junior high or whatever who had blah de blah blah has no real bearing on the matter in my view.  We're not talking about real life, we are talking about a form of art.

Also I think the character's breast size is largely errelivant beyond the fact that she has proportions well in keeping with a fully (and exceptionally well endowed) adult.  I applaude those who actually took time to look at some of the other factors in the body structure which are much better indicators.

Now in terms of westernized anime I'd maybe be willing to concead a somewhat broader age range, but certianly not to the lower extremes some have suggested.  Sorry but in terms of the art form it just isn't done, not even in westernized anime.

So I really don't care if someone's entire junior high class looked like amazons or centerfolds, or if little suzy from down the street had breasts the size of basketballs before she was out of daipers.  I really don't think that how well developed you or your children or your children's children were by the time they reached Jr. High is all that relevant.  If we were talking about characters who were meant to be rendered in as real as style as the 3d medium allows such as V3 or M3 for example, then I might better understand the relevance of the cases sited.  As it is, anime characters are not meant to be drawn or rendered in a wholly realistic manner, once again as I think I've said several times that completly defeats the purpose of the artform.

I think it took alot of courage for you Cruzin, to put a personal peice of artwork and a character you'd obviously put a fair amount of time into this thread for review, particullarly given the atmosphere.  That, frankly, took guts.  So thankyou for having the courage to try.

Oh, and if it were my render, I'd have things that I would have changed, but it's not.  It's yours.  So I'm going to refrain from making any suggestions as to how to appease anyone's perceptions with small changes to the work, because it's yours and your vision, and I respect that.

And dang it I'm going to say something else.  It makes me especially upset when I read about artists who were banned in what I am going to now designate the "May purge" since I understand that's when alot of this started really happening as far as artists leaving or being banned, these same artists who are now working with artists still on the site to try and help them conform their work to the TOS and still mantain their artistic integrity.  Heck, in my book that says alot about someone right there.

Now I understand that changes had to be made and blah de blah blah but for crying out.  Well.. If I had my way about it, and I won't of course, but if I did, I'd take those cases and put them up for review.  I'd talk with the artists off site in E-mails or whatever if they were willing to see if something could be worked out.  Because I think it's the sadest thing in the world when people give up on other people at the very times when they need it most.

And ya, I've been around the net.  And ya, I know how it is.  And yes I've heard the arguement that nothing can be changed and that's just the way it is and nothing anyone can do or say will ever change that.  And no, I haven't stopped and will never stop believing that when we really lose ourselves is when we loose the courage to try.

Oh! Goodness it all sounds frightening, maybe I'll hold off downloading freebies, although I already went through the entire freebie section awhile ago (but after the change) when I got my new system and downloaded a huge amount both stuff I had before and also some new stuffs.  I only got a few warnings and I generally kinda trust to faith.  I've never (too my knowlege) downloaded a freebie yet that ended up screwing up my computer.  I reckon most people honestly want to share their stuffs (and I thank them for it).  Theres some pop-ups and stuff blocked from bad sites, and some of the older links are dead or down for service, but I leave them alone because the person generally either gets around to fixing them, or the site itself is no more and I figure for free stuff you take what's given while it's there and if you miss it, you miss it.

Heck I've got more stuff in my runtime then I know what to do with, and very little is commercial (I'm poor ... leave me alone...).  Ironicly most of my favorites are stuff that's comparitivly older, but I think rather timeless.  My thanks to all the great folks out their who continue to share and make wonderfull freebies for everyone to enjoy. ^^

Wow! My first Renderousity Christmas it's very generous of all of you thankyou so much and a early Merry Christmas to everyone ^^

Thanks Captain Jack, I was feeling a bit down when I came to look at this thread, seeing that adorable little kitten made me all smiles again.  I said before that there would be no winners here, but I think I must ammend that to include that the Little Kitten troops have....

Little kitten trooper No 102, code name "Mittens" reporting to the Commanding Officer, 14th "Kat's Eye" Inf. Div.

"We have taken the thread and it is ours, sir!"

"Excellent!" Replies General "Fluffy" Rubbing little paws togeather.  "Now to the nearest can opener!  Mawahahaha!"

I got supriseds the first time it happends to me! But I figured it out, and I just reply with IM on site.  ^^