wolf359 posted at 5:29AM Sun, 22 November 2020 - #4405382

@ssgbryan

The Problem with this (often repeated), gratuitous assertion of yours is as follows:

The Majority of the current Daz studio user base has never used poser and are thus not concerned with any "feature parity" with poser.?

Only the ability to use the latest Genesis models/content natively. and that does not cost $750 USD as people's costs will vary greatly depending on what bundles etc. they choose to buy during whatever sale promotion at Daz or here at the RMP.?

A new user can download Daz studio for ZERO USD and get the base version of the latest Genesis models and spend $225 USD on whatever content Daz has in one of their endless sales. and still not have reached the initial cost of buying poser 12 for $249.?

So this 700+ USD number, you keep repeating, is completey arbitrary & based on personal decisions you chose to make and have nothing to do with what others may choose to buy for their Daz studio usage.

By the way, Houdini is one of the most advanced 3d programs out >there. Complex Houdini scenes are not compatible with any other >program

Not entirely true:?

https://www.sidefx.com/products/houdini-engine/

Of course the truly complex procedural native stuff needs to be done within houdini but its not exactly a closed garden.

Bondware has decided to move away from maintaining third party import export plugins( poser fusion, DSON)and focus on the core application with a token FBX importer/exporter.

That is fine because the core program and its content and figures needs to be competitive before people outside of the poser ecosystem find them desirable for use in other programs....is that the case at present????

The harsh truth of the matter is the neither Iclone CC3 figures nor the Mighty Genesis figures from Daz are widely used by professional Gaming or Film/TV/VFX studios who use Maya ,Houdini or even Blender.

Go on... have a look at any offcial demo Reel by Autodesk, SideFX the Foundry or any amazing Game engine Demo by Epic games or Unity and you wont find a Daz or Iclone/CC3 figure anywhere.?

So this endless debate about "compatibility" for SOME ,in the poser community has only ever been about one thing.

The Desire/Demand to use the Daz genesis models without leaving the myopic little comfort bubble of Poser.

WOW. I'M GONNA SAY I'M IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH EVERYTHING YOU JUST SAID. FINALLY SOMEBODY WITH SOME INTELLIGENCE. THANKS FOR GIGGING ON THAT $700 DOLLAR THING TOO. WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT? DAZ IS FREEWARE FROM THE FLOOR UP. THEY MAKE THEIR MONEY ON CONTENT NOT THE ACTUAL SOFTWARE. THEY TRIED ONCE...AND IT FLOPPED SO HARD IT HURT. THANK YOU FOR BACKING ME UP AND WITH FACTS TOO!

A_Sunbeam posted at 5:26AM Sun, 22 November 2020 - #4405370

I'm still hoping JAG will show us some of his Poser work.

I'M STILL HOPING YOU'LL REALIZE YOU HAVE NOTHING CONSTRUCTIVE (OR EVEN OFFENSIVE) TO OFFER TO THIS THREAD SO WHY ARE YOU POSTING? I COULD POST THE MOST PICTURE-PERFECT IMAGE TO SPITE YOU AND YOU'D STILL NOT LIKE ME OR WANT TO HEAR WHAT I HAVE TO SAY NOR ADMIT I'M RIGHT. SO WHY WOULD I BOTHER POSTING SOMETHING NEW? I ALREADY STATED MY WORK IS RATHER BORING AND NON-ARTISTIC. I DO ACCIDENT RECREATIONS AND BUILDING DESIGN SAMPLES. BORING. WHICH IF I POSTED YOU'D BERATE FOR BEING SUCH. I'M NOT FALLING INTO A GOAD. NICE TRY. COME BACK WHEN YOU HAVE VALUE TO THE CONVERSATION.

Liquid_Ice posted at 5:25AM Sun, 22 November 2020 - #4405364

Whatever your view I hope we can all agree that at least the new poser owners have a positive view and attitude and that is also very refreshing :)

HAHAHAHAHAHA! WE WILL HAVE TO AGREE TO DISAGREE ON THAT ONE. APPARENTLY YOU HAVEN'T SAID SOMETHING THAT THEY DIDN'T LIKE QUITE YET.

ssgbryan posted at 5:13AM Sun, 22 November 2020 - #4405344

JAG posted at 9:56PM Fri, 20 November 2020 - #4405306

Clearly you simply don't have the comprehensive skill set to understand the point of this thread. I don't have the will or patients to explain economics and business to you. Take a class. I'm not whining about my own decisions. My DAZ content still works just fine - in DAZ studio and my older Poser editions. I'm pointing out that limiting compatibility is not good for Poser. DAZ and Iclone are both expanding their compatibility features and pipelines (plugins and bridges) while Poser is continuing to consolidate and cut-off any and all extra features and plugins. I mean they literally just upended every Python plugin for the program to date. In simpler terms, Poser is going the OPPOSITE direction of every other 3D developer. Doesn't that strike you as rather dumb? Especially when other companies are succeeding and Poser is being dumped by Smith due to poor sales? Economics man...economics!

Kid, your understanding of software development (and associated software legal issues) is non-existent. And yes, you are whining about your decisions.
I'M A KID NOW? REALLY? INTERESTING. WELL GRAM-PAH YOUR DEGREE IS NICE BUT IT DOES NOT TRUMP MY MASTERS IN HISTORY. SORRY BUT WHILE ITS NOT QUITE THE BUSINESS DEGREE I KNOW IT STILL ENTITLES ME TO KNOW HOW TO READ AND RESEARCH. BUSINESS IS OPINION.

I have a business degree too. I suspect I have run larger organizations than you have. I know I have been involved in larger software development projects than you have. BTW, Economics isn't science - it is opinion, with numbers attached.

To review..... Python 2 is dead - there is nothing you can do about that. FBX is the future, as is PBR. I would prefer that Bondware go will a full Cycles render engine, (so we can use those sweet, sweet 16Gb RX 6000 series GPUs) but we aren't there yet.

YEP...AND STILL WAITING...AND WAITING...AND OH THERE WENT DAZ...CRAP!

The DSON importer won't be updated for the same reason Apple refused to sign off on Nvidia 2000 series drivers for OSX. It is about company politics. It isn't a technical issue. For a closer analogy - See OS/2 and Win32s compatibility.

ON THIS I MIGHT ACTUALLY AGREE.

If you want to use your DS content in Poser, you can (I do it all the time - I have spent thousands on DS content myself - filling spaces that Poser vendors have chosen to ignore). Of course, It will take a little bit of work on your part, but that is the case with any 3d asset that isn't native to a program.

If that is too much work, remember, Poser does have a Make Art button.....

Or just go use Daz Studio. Just don't forget that:

1. You will need to spend about $750 in 3rd party scripts to reach rough compatibility. (That number was NOT picked out of a hat.)
2. DS is still single-threaded. Have fun dealing with every function hanging off of the main thread.
3. You will be busy for a while trying to figure out how to use their new thingie (filament) with their render engine (and paying for the privilege).

ABSOLUTE GARBAGE. LINK ME TO WHERE IT STATES YOU NEED $750 WORTH OF CONTENT TO GET ROUGH COMPATIBILITY? ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ICLONE? I WOULD AGREE THERE. DAZ DOES NOT REQUIRE ANYTHING OUT OF THE BOX AND IT ACTUALLY DOES MORE THAN POSER CURRENTLY. IT STILL SUCKS AND I HATE THE UI AND TREE DESIGN BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH PRICES. I HAVE NOT A SINGLE SCRIPT PLUGGED INTO MINE OTHER THAN DSON WHICH IS ALSO FREE OR WAS FOR ME. SINGLE THREAD MAYBE BUT THE IRAY STILL RENDERS FASTER THAN FIREFLY. I HAVE TESTED THAT LITTLE QUESTION SEVERAL TIMES. I STILL DON'T GET NUMBER THREE. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT WITH THIS PAID RENDER ENGINE?

randym77 posted at 5:11AM Sun, 22 November 2020 - #4405325

He's been informed that most people here are older than he is, but he's still ranting about the "younger generation." ?

Smith Micro had some revenue issues, but they had nothing to do with Poser. Graphics in general was a drop in the bucket compared to their other divisions. They took a bath on their wireless/mobile stuff, which is massive compared to Poser.

I THANK YOU FOR BACKING MY POINT ON SMITH AND PROFITS. I HAVE AN EMAIL FROM SOMEONE ON THEIR SUPPORT TEAM TELLING ME WHY THEY DROPPED THE PROGRAM. IT WAS NOT PROFITABLE AFTER 11 RELEASED - NOT ENOUGH TO WARRANT THEIR INTEREST FURTHER AT LEAST.

Deecey posted at 4:54AM Sun, 22 November 2020 - #4405316

I'm sorry ... but you are misinformed in many of your claims.

The one plugin, GoZ, has had a glitch for over two years that they claim they can't fix that renders the use of the SubD export feature absolutely useless

The issue isn't with GoZ. The issue is the very core of how Poser works. This has been explained to you several times. Poser was built on technology that split the mesh into individual groups once it was turned into a figure. They are now moving toward a TRUE unimesh. No more body part groups to deal with. A full mesh and a skeleton. This will not be a trivial change as it will touch every aspect of Poser. Several have already tried to explain this to you. You are the one who isn't listening. I DIDN'T SAY IT WAS WITH GOZ - I SAID IT WAS WITH POSER AND I HAVE AN EMAIL FROM PIXOLOGIC TO BACK THAT STATEMENT UP. I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WENT WRONG BECAUSE CHARLES EXPLAINED IT TO ME WHEN WE DISCUSSED IT IN DEPTH A YEAR OR SO BACK. POSER ISN'T READING THE DATA COMING BACK FROM Z CORRECTLY AND THUS CANNOT ACCURATELY REALIGN THE SUBDIVIDED SHAPE. I ALSO HAVE EMAILS FROM CHARLES TO BACK THAT UP.

and now they're cutting off their only other real importer (DSON) as well as shutting down every existing Python 2.0 based plugin.

Python 2 has reached END OF LIFE. No more support. What else are they supposed to do? Again, you aren't listening. OH I'M LISTENING. I JUST SAID IF PYTHON 2 CAN'T BE KEPT FUNCTIONAL ALONG WITH THE 3 UPDATE (AND BEFORE YOU ARGUE ON THE BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY ISSUE YOU MIGHT WANT TO GOOGLE IT...THEY'RE WORKING ON MAKING BOTH WORK ON SAME MACHINE) --- THEN I SUGGESTED CREATING A DSON-LIKE (AS IN MADE AND CONTROLLED BY BONDWARE) TO IMPORT DAZ CONTENT. DON'T TELL ME IT CAN'T BE DONE. DAZ WROTE DSON TO IMPORT CONTENT INTO POSER. POSER CAN RUN THAT RIGHT BACKWARDS WITHOUT THE SLIGHTEST LEGAL ISSUE. AS LONG AS THEY DON'T TAMPER WITH DAZ CODE OR DUPLICATE DAZ CODE IT IS LEGAL. OTHERWISE SMITH WOULD HAVE SUED DAZ OVER DSON.

Smith dumping the program should be enough to tell you 11 didn't sell very well.

Sorry. Misinformed. Graphics division was doing just fine. REALLY? 'CAUSE CORPORATIONS OFTEN SHUT DOWN SOFTWARE PROGRAMS THAT ARE MAKING THEM A LOT OF MONEY. THAT'S JUST COMMON PRACTICE I'D SAY - RIGHT? 'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SPOUTING. UTTER BS! I WILL CALL IT WHAT IT IS. GRAPHICS DIVISION WAS DOING WELL BUT POSER WASN'T AND IT WAS COSTING TOO MUCH TO CONTINUE DEVELOPMENT. I HAVE AN EMAIL FROM SMITH MICRO BACKING THAT ONE UP. GO AHEAD AND SAY IT AGAIN BUT DON'T CRY WHEN YOUR PANTS CATCH FLAME.

Remember how cool it was when Smith introduced cloth simulation? Where are the innovations?

Smith didn't add the cloth sim. Curious Labs did 5 years before SM was in the picture. That's right. The original Poser team, some of who are now working with Bondware. MY SINCERE APOLOGIES. I DIDN'T REALIZE I WAS TALKING TO AN IDIOT. CLOTHING SIMULATION - NOT CLOTHING. CLOTHING AS IN CONFORMING WAS ADDED BY CURIOUS LABS BUT CLOTH SIMULATION WAS NOT ADDED UNTIL SMITH TOOK OVER AND IT DEBUTED WITH POSER PRO 2010 GO SEE HERE UNINFORMED PERSON: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poser BOTTOM OF THE PAGE. READ AND WEEP OVER YOUR IGNORANCE.

You cannot tell me with a straight face that Bondware is moving Poser forward and advancing it.

They are, but with a much smaller team than SM had when all of those innovations were added. Going with unimesh is moving foward. Going to Python 3 is moving forward. Going with a raytrace rendering engine with PBR capability is moving forward. Improving rigging and content creation tools is moving forward. I'M NOT SAYING WHAT THEY'RE DOING ISN'T AN IMPROVMENT BUT IT'S NOT INNOVATING. WE NEED NEW FEATURES NOT FIXES FOR OLD ONES. WHILE THIS SMALLER TEAM PIECES TOGETHER FIXES AND BUG-KILLS, THE OTHER COMPETITION COMPANIES ARE BLOWING PAST THEM AND LEAVING POSER BEHIND. YOU CANNOT ARGUE THAT. IT'S UTTER FACTS. COMPARE DAZ FEATURES TO POSER CURRENTLY! DAZ IS FREE! IF YOU CAN'T HOLD OUT MORE FEATURES THAN A FREEWARE THEN YOU'RE NOT GONNA SELL PAY-SOFTWARE. YOU MUST INNOVATE. IF THE CURRENT TEAM CAN'T MANAGE THAT THEN POSER WILL DIE. ARGUE THAT PLEASE.

They have not released one single new feature that is of any consequence since acquiring the program.

Care to share which new features of any consequence Smith Micro added after they let the original team go in 2016? I'm waiting. 8-) I'M NOT. WHY YOU THINK I'M STILL WORKING ON P10 MAN?! THEY MESSED UP LETTING THAT ORIGINAL TEAM GO. I'M NOT DEFENDING SMITH MICRO. WHERE THE HECK DID YOU GET THAT? I BASHED P11 AND I QUIT THEIR BETA TEAM. DID YOU MIX ME UP WITH SOMEBODY ELSE?

What's the problem with negativity? That's the problem with the younger generations - you all live in this fantasy world where everything has to be unicorns and rainbows or it's too terrible to handle.

Doesn't apply to this chick. I'm old enough to be your mother. WELL GRANDMA --- AND I SAY THAT BECAUSE I'M A GRANDPA AND IF YOU'RE OLDER THAN ME WELL IT SHOULDN'T BE AN INSULT - CLEARLY THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM IS THAT YOU DON'T COMPREHEND THE USEFULNESS OF POINTING OUT THINGS THAT AREN'T RIGHT OR THAT HAVE FAILED. SO WHEN YOU GET A MINUTE, GO BACK AND SEE IF YOU CAN SWAT DOWN MY COUNTER-POINTS. THIS SHOULD BE AMUSING AND BY AMUSING I MEAN MAKING ME LAUGH AS YOU FLOUNDER TO CONTRADICT FACTS.

shvrdavid posted at 4:45AM Sun, 22 November 2020 - #4405315

1. Every single 3D program company out there is moving towards compatibility.

This is so far from the truth it is scary.

Go tell Kim Davidson of Side Effects that he needs to follow your path of wisdom (or Houdini wont make it), and see how far you get with that argument. By the way, Houdini is one of the most advanced 3d programs out there. Complex Houdini scenes are not compatible with any other program. Houdini is doing fine, and has displaced names like IDL, Autodesk, etc, blatantly going against what you claim is the only way to go.

The same thing can be said about Blender as well. You mock Cycles, yet it is turning out to be one of the best render engines going. Yes, Brecth took a few years off to write another render engine, but he is back and Cycles has made huge progress. Superfly in Poser 12 is taking advantage of Cycles new features, and the speed increases alone are tremendous from the last version.

You have been saying for years that Poser is going to die and yet here you are saying the same thing yet again, years later.

You killed that horse years ago, stop beating it.....

So Blender, Maya, Adobe, Iclone, DAZ, all game engines, FBX format, Max and so on...yeah, I'm just stupid. Nobody really has an all-in-one system thus compatibility is a means of life. Were it not, then why do we have file format compatibility. I mean if everything could be done in one program, why do we have FBX, OBJ, and so on? You're simply an uneducated person clearly talking out of their wrong hole.

And WTF are you talking about I been saying Poser was dead for years? Oh wait, I have...since Smith let me work on P11 beta. Yes, I have been. And I was right - hence how Bondware ended up with it - aka, Smith didn't want it no more - because------wait for it-------it was dead. Thank you. By dead I mean not making a profit hence eventually it will be left on the side of the road in a ditch wrapped in a tarp most likely. So again...YOU = DON'T KNOW WHAT IS BEING TALKED ABOUT. Shhh...adults talking.

RobZhena posted at 5:51PM Fri, 20 November 2020 - #4405301

@DAG: So far as I can tell, the ONLY reason to move to Poser 12 is much better Superfly. Do you even use Superfly? I don't, because I always thought it was way too complicated and way too slow. They fixed the slow. I still won't use it. If you don't use Superfly, this whole thread is moot.

Yeah I am with you on Superfly being terrible. I said that with 11 while on the beta team with Smith. I wasn't alone. The Poser development team fixates for some reason. They get something in their heads and they push forward on it no matter what obstacles or common sense get in the way. I get it that they wanted a better engine to compete with DAZ and iray, but wouldn't it have been easier to build a converter/bridge to get into Octane (oh wait...already exists - see Octane site)...or implementing iRay for themselves? So many engines out there and options...superfly is horrid. It remains horrid. And the arguments over materials is moot as Superfly doesn't use old poser materials worth a crap - so materials becomes a problem anyway.

But yes, it is moot in that way. I see your point. I only started this rant to try and make inroads and points with the development team. But just as they did at Smith, they're still not listening. Fixated and convinced they're advancing the software...while the rest of the industry passes them up and their customers abandon ship. Back up...take a breath...and absorb the fact that Poser already failed with 11 and that's why Smith dumped it. Companies don't put 10 years into a project and toss it out if its making them money. Smith dumped Poser because 11 failed to meet with expectations with regard to profits. They put plenty of fancy spin on their reasons but we all know it's money. So if the development team failed at Smith, shouldn't that tell Bondware to pursue a different avenue of development if they want to save the program? Nope, they hired in the same people and are pursuing the same path. I don't get it. I won't ever. Fixation and denial of negative points. It leads to brick walls. They don't want to hear that they failed dramatically with 11. They don't want to admit that and they're not going to. They will continue on their path till Bondware yanks the plug on them just like Smith did. Change course. Do something new and better than your competitors. If you're not capable of doing that - you've already lost the battle and the war.

Tell us oh mighty developers of Poser...what grand and totally innovative features should we expect in the next year for Poser? I've seen nothing so far. I'm curious to know in what direction they are traveling at this point.

Apparently I angered Charles yesterday. It was not my intent. I've already apologized to him to some extent, but I will not retract my criticisms of how the program is being developed (or lack thereof). I will not apologize for laying hard truths out. As a 25 year customer of this software I will not apologize for pointing out what I see as the systematic death of it. I love Poser. It pains me to see it tanking. It is the equivalent of watching someone drown while standing there with a life-saver. I'm saying what I'm saying in hopes of my words being a flotation device to save Poser from drowning. I know it won't. I've been shouting for years now and all I do is anger the very people who should be listening and invite the trolling of less qualified complainers.

Perhaps I'm done...perhaps not.

bwldrd posted at 5:49PM Fri, 20 November 2020 - #4405291

Quote "But remember, nobody is forcing you to upgrade, you can remain in the past with old technologies and they will keep working as normal."

Unless bondware does what SM did with Poser Game Designer and kill the licensing servers for 11 without giving anyone an option of an offline license or executable, that would keep working after they killed their activation servers. Then 11 would be just as useless. And don't tell me 2014 will still work I know that, but the Game Designer functions won't.

But I digress, due to that being off topic.

BOOM! And I second that point. I got burned on Game Dev myself. Still peeved on that one. Violation (clearly) of the EULA with regard to Smith. Were I a rich man I've had filed suit over that just for the principal of it. Corporations do what they want because us humble peons can't afford to go after them in the courts. Must be nice, huh?

structure posted at 5:37PM Fri, 20 November 2020 - #4405269

Bondware is doing two things with Poser,

1. They are bringing it into the modern world, using modern technologies, at some point, older technologies just have to give way, this is called progress.

2. They are attempting to fix the errors that slipped in under previous owners.

Yes Bondware chose to upgrade to Python3, because Python2 is no longer supported, it has reached EOL, and therefore there will be no security updates or additions etc.
( PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF THIS - IT IS IMPORTANT )

But remember, nobody is forcing you to upgrade, you can remain in the past with old technologies and they will keep working as normal.

If you do upgrade, great, but accept that Poser is forging ahead and DSON has no place inside Poser unless DAZ decide to upgrade it ( good luck with that ) ) Older scripts are being upgraded to python3 ( this will take a little time ) Only a small contingent of python scripters are working on this project and we are trying to account for the most used / most important scripts. DSON is at the bottom of a very BIG pile.

All of that said, negativity is of no use to the developers, this forum, or the people working hard to make these scripts work with Poser 12.

You are wrong on so many points. Let me take them one at a time:

1. Every single 3D program company out there is moving towards compatibility. That includes DAZ and Iclone developers as well as others like Blender and so forth. Poser is however, shutting out compatibility. The one plugin, GoZ, has had a glitch for over two years that they claim they can't fix that renders the use of the SubD export feature absolutely useless and now they're cutting off their only other real importer (DSON) as well as shutting down every existing Python 2.0 based plugin. They are going the opposite direction of every other developer. Smith dumping the program should be enough to tell you 11 didn't sell very well. Why? The same development team that was failing at Smith is now working for Bondware...still running the show. You cannot tell me with a straight face that Bondware is moving Poser forward and advancing it. They have not released one single new feature that is of any consequence since acquiring the program. It's all bug fixes and tweaks and things that don't half work. Remember how cool it was when Smith introduced cloth simulation? Where are the innovations? DAZ just released a spring-physics plugin for studio. I don't want Poser to fail and I don't want it to go backwards - just the opposite - I'm trying to make them understand that they're already going the wrong direction.

2. Fixing errors? Yes and that's all they're doing. Innovation?!?! Hello? Compatibility??? Anyone?? No one listening as usual.

3. What's the problem with negativity? That's the problem with the younger generations - you all live in this fantasy world where everything has to be unicorns and rainbows or it's too terrible to handle. If something sucks - you say it sucks. If I've got a booger hanging out of my nose - tell me. Don't let me walk around all day with it hanging out and grossing everyone out. It's not negative to say, "Dude ya'got a boog hanging out your nose." That's telling me something I need to hear for my own good. Grow up and be an adult and stop whining about negativity. We need negativity - as it serves a purpose. It shows us what is wrong so we can fix it. Developers DEFINITELY need to hear negative feedback. Maybe if Smith had listened P11 wouldn't have tanked.

wolf359 posted at 5:35PM Fri, 20 November 2020 - #4405260

Poser is the Titanic and nobody realizes they hit an iceberg over two years ago.

Yet you remain onboard ranting about how the ship managment has removed one of your favorite deck chairs.?

Now DAZ is trying to finish Poser off. Hence they're not likely to >want DSON to continue working. They're probably waiting for >Bondware to tank so they can buy Poser and bury it or incorporate >it like >they've done with other rival software.

If this is true YOU were complicit in their evil "conspiracy" by supporting them with "$$10K" worth of purchases ... yes??

If Daz considered Poser a threatening competitor, there would be no poser forum over at the Daz website.?

Try starting a Daz forum thread about the new skingen system in Iclone or posting a link to a video about converting a Genesis 8 figure to CC3 ,via their shape projection system ,and you will very quickly learn whom Daz considers a threat in this Market.?

Yet someone on the Reallusion forum recently complained about the poor frankly quality of the native hair sets for Iclone and the Forum Admin posted a direct link to the Hair section of the Daz store because we have a means to import& convert Daz content to Iclone native content. ?

I will state that I despise being assumed-to-be an idiot or >novice.

And I would imagine that Many long time members of this forum ( in their 50's& 60's), equally despised being assumed to be some clueless twitter twats or Millenials with no understanding of the how the world works because they are so spoiled by the modern technology your "generation" gifted to humanity.

My generation invented modern internet and digital mediums. Don't get cocky. If it wasn't for GenX, (post-boomer) you clowns >wouldn't have computers, phones, or tablets. You're welcome.

Lovely!! so your "generation" should be able to figure out how to operate a Kiddie toy ,freeware application like Daz Studio to render your precious Genesis dolls in their native Iray environment where they will always work no matter what happens with python development.

I stopped using Poser after Poser pro 2014 when I realized that Iclone Offered Far better realtime Character animation tools and a means to import & animate Daz genesis figure since G1.

Yes the Iclone Multi-tiered software is expensive, but it acheives my creative objectives so instead of ranting at SM/BW about the lack of a useful nonlinear motion clip system,Lipsynch tools or proper human IK solver, I moved to a different tool for my animated filmaking and completed my 93 minute feature length Marvel Fan film.

I dont buy content, I model my own in Blender..FREE!! formerly for Daz studio/Genesis and now for the CC3 base realtime Avatars(pic)

Daz inc & Bondware could vanish from the universe today and my creative endeavours would not be affected.

The 3D/CG world has advanced alot since your "generations" Glory days.

the Binary world of Poser or Daz studio no longer exists

I understand the Desire to stay hunched in ones little comfort bubble however it often limits ones creative options.

Yes, yes...thank you for your diatribe on how we should all feel and function. I'm so glad your way is the best and if we don't agree we're just old and stupid. Thanks. I'm pretty much done talking to you. Thanks.

shvrdavid posted at 5:27PM Fri, 20 November 2020 - #4405239

JAG posted at 8:59PM Thu, 19 November 2020 - #4405209

Well, gee...that would be a logical thing to do. Surely I wouldn't have --- oh wait, yes I did ask them and no they have not ever responded and probably won't. Feel free to try it yourself. I've bought nearly $10K worth of content from them in the last fifteen years and if they don't answer my inquiries...chances are they aren't going to answer anybody else either - but if someone does get a response - please post it.

Not to be rude, and more to understand where you are coming from. If you did ask Daz about it and you didn't get an answer, why would you be mad at Poser?

Many programs have made api changes from one version to the next. It happens a lot. This has happened to just about every 3D program I have ever used. This has happened to many programs, that have nothing to do with graphics at all. Scripts have to be redone to work with the new api. It is a normal occurrence no matter what the program does.

I don't understand you being so upset at Poser when you spent a lot amount of money on content for Studio that you can't load into a newer version of Poser because Daz has not updated their own script yet. I can understand you being upset at Daz for not answering you about it thou. But that is not the direction you took this thread at all.

Anyone coming into this thread now and reading the whole thing up to this point is going to read thru 6 pages of text and come to the conclusion that the reason you are mad is that you spent 10k on Studio content instead of content for Poser. Now that Poser 12 can't presently use the 10k of content you bought for another program, it is Poser fault.

Look, I know people blow off steam, etc. Both of us have been here for years and I will admit I have had bad days myself. So no biggy there. If your dead set on getting Daz to update the script, using a tactful approach is always the best way to do it, and in the right place. It would be far better getting other people to help you convince Daz to update the script, then slam the program that ultimately needs it so you can use your content in it.

Clearly you simply don't have the comprehensive skill set to understand the point of this thread. I don't have the will or patients to explain economics and business to you. Take a class. I'm not whining about my own decisions. My DAZ content still works just fine - in DAZ studio and my older Poser editions. I'm pointing out that limiting compatibility is not good for Poser. DAZ and Iclone are both expanding their compatibility features and pipelines (plugins and bridges) while Poser is continuing to consolidate and cut-off any and all extra features and plugins. I mean they literally just upended every Python plugin for the program to date. In simpler terms, Poser is going the OPPOSITE direction of every other 3D developer. Doesn't that strike you as rather dumb? Especially when other companies are succeeding and Poser is being dumped by Smith due to poor sales? Economics man...economics!

Deecey posted at 5:21PM Fri, 20 November 2020 - #4405237

Poser has never handled normals well. Firefly literally could not use them at all. The displacement system for Poser was also jacked. Most programs and render engines utilize a gray-scale image in which black is deep and white is high and gray is neutral. This allows the surface to be manipulated in and out at the same time. Poser reads black as neutral and anything gray to white rises in height. You can make a negative (-1.0) setting to get indentions but it requires mixing maps which is wasted effort. So many things could have been fixed and none of these things ever gets improved. Like all Firefly needed was caustics and some tweaks - along with new lighting improvements. But instead they focus on superfly which is slow and ridiculous. Why not work on a bridge to one of the fancier game engines that are now free? Oh wait...that's what DAZ is doing! Again, behind the line on getting ahead, Bondware. Ultimately running the wrong direction.

If I might be a bit bold here ....

On one hand, you are suggesting that Poser should have stuck with FireFly instead of moving forward with Cycles/SuperFly.

On the other hand, you are suggesting that Poser should move forward again and go with a bridge to a game engine.

I'm confused ... should the devs look backward, or forward? At some point, software has no choice but to look forward. Python 2 is reaching end of life. Flash is reaching end of life. Decisions had to be made at some point on what had to be done to replace them. Which means moving forward.

I'm not trying to be insulting, or to rain on your parade, but old technologies are always replaced with new as they become obsolete. If one waits too long, more users are left with no other choice. I have 3 versions of Cinema 4D installed on my system because of plugin incompatibilities, and some of those plugins were pretty costly. All of the plugins I purchased for R19 and before no longer work in R20 and R21, and the newer ones I purchased don't work in the older versions. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

I made two separate statements. Don't twist them and try to make me look like I'm not sure of my direction. That's a debate tactic and I can assure you I am well versed in such things. I stated that Firefly was a quick and solid little render engine that needed improvements (such as caustics) and some better lighting. It could have been drastically improved but Smith wanted to move into a render engine like Daz's Iray. So rather than fix what they had, they decided to tackle something completely new (superfly). So now they have a whole new engine with bugs of its own and its still slow and pretty shabby compared to say Iray. End of statement.

The next statement I made was that it's not a big leap to create bridges for other programs. DAZ has just released a bevy of free bridges. Iclone now has a DAZ and Poser content pipeline option to directly import DAZ and Poser content. These programs are succeeding because they are expanding their compatibility. Poser is going the opposite direction by limiting its compatibility (aka, cutting off python scripts and DSON). Why is Poser the only program not capable (now with 12 at least) of importing anyone else's content? DAZ uses Poser...Iclone uses both...Poser uses??? See my point?

Miss B posted at 8:04PM Thu, 19 November 2020 - #4405221

randym77 posted at 6:07PM Thu, 19 November 2020 - #4405217

Me, too, actually. I think the average poster here is 55 to dead. We're not old, we're...um...vintage!

Hmmmm, vintage. Perhaps like a superb glass of wine.

I'm only 45. Just saying.

Deecey posted at 7:59PM Thu, 19 November 2020 - #4405219

randym77 posted at 6:00PM Thu, 19 November 2020 - #4405218

Deecey posted at 5:51PM Thu, 19 November 2020 - #4405216

It's a total resculpt, more realistic proportions. Based off a scan of a real human. Some of us old timers put some elbow grease into things. 8-)

She looks really good. Is this a future product in the RMP?

I like the way hair renders in Poser 12. I never liked the way hair rendered in Superfly, especially curly hair, but this looks very nice.

Yeah I'm working on it. I'm still not happy with the normal map ... UGH

But it's getting closer. 8-)

Poser has never handled normals well. Firefly literally could not use them at all. The displacement system for Poser was also jacked. Most programs and render engines utilize a gray-scale image in which black is deep and white is high and gray is neutral. This allows the surface to be manipulated in and out at the same time. Poser reads black as neutral and anything gray to white rises in height. You can make a negative (-1.0) setting to get indentions but it requires mixing maps which is wasted effort. So many things could have been fixed and none of these things ever gets improved. Like all Firefly needed was caustics and some tweaks - along with new lighting improvements. But instead they focus on superfly which is slow and ridiculous. Why not work on a bridge to one of the fancier game engines that are now free? Oh wait...that's what DAZ is doing! Again, behind the line on getting ahead, Bondware. Ultimately running the wrong direction.