Kitty quietly walked in the building through a door left half open by a lazy janatorial worker.  Kitty looked left and then right...a mouse scurried across the floor.  Kitty licked her lips and thought how sastisfying the meal would be, but then quickly shook it's head from left to right  and focused on the mission at hand.

Kitty had been trained to do this all her life, but now she had doubts.  Deep, powerful thoughts, but then she remembered the terrible name they called her "Mittens".  She looked down the hall and saw a large garbage can in the corner by the boiler, a smile (or what could be considered a smile by a cat) came over her face.  She slowly walked over to the can, attempting to mute the sound of the damned bell around her neck.  

Ten minutes later, Kitty left the building the same way she came in and went across the street.  Fear came over her as some children passed by her.   She hated human children, they would pet her roughly with their dirty, dirty hands.  She sighed a quiet sigh of relief as the boys passed by her only to gulp down hard as a woman with a stroller stopped beside her.

The child in stroller gurgled upon noticing Kitty patiently looking at the building and begun stroking Kitty hard.  Kitty kept her eyes trained on the building surpressing the urge to scratch the child.

BOOM!

The building blew up and the child started to scream.  Kitty smiled and thought, "yeah, yeah big noise make grubby hands cry..." she stopped in mid thought as she saw the same mouse she had spied earlier scurry outside the now burning building.  It was a good day to be Kitty.

I'm going to make this brief as possible (just had another 18 day....yay Marine Corps)

I like all of Crimson's ideas they make sense.  I'm pretty sure no matter what is posted the Mods can guess the intent...most of the time.  

A permanent ban I think should be used in only extreme cases.  I won't paint the picture but I'm pretty sure you all know what I mean by extreme.

There was a purge here...seemed to span from April-July (I used to look at the sight throught someone else's account...I hate giving my email out).  Some of these may have been justifiable but others...

I can't recall which but I'm guesing Stacy said she had corresponded with one such banned member and said for the most part he was amiable.  He too, says he didn't agree but understood the reason behind a temporary ban...(key words: didn't agree but understood), unfortunately it was his thrid time, the first being over a year and the second a month or so prior.  He agreed with the first one, just as the case with Crimson...it was one of those "oops yeah, I should have known better, took the render down and reposted it TOS compliant.  

The second, didn't agree.

The third really didn't agree at all (even though now he grudgingly sees why it could have gone either way)

One of the mods stated he was amiable even after his permanent ban...what upset him most is that he felt he was being accused of pedophilia...we can all say "no he wasn't" but to be permantly banned from a site for posting underage images....well what would you think if you were just an observer.  

I know what I thought  "damn, you gots problems" until he showed me the three renders that caused his permanent banning....yup like he said, first one just wrong...yeah if you take it in context you understand why, made sense...still dead wrong.  2nd...I still don't see anything wrong with that one...the third I finally saw a few days ago....yeah it can go either way.

Then there are the artist I don't know face to face, same thing with the Girl being the subject of the render, one of which was a well known vendor and at one point erased her whole gallery because...haven't seen her post anything new in awhile....probably got caught in the purge.

I have two other people I know who also were caught in the "purge"...one similar to the above situations...the other well let's just say I don't know what she was smoking but there was no attempt to even comply a little, beautiful compostition but the subject...way wrong.

Since I still work with her, I'm not going to say anything harsh because like others she probably has a "secret account" here too.  But if I didn't know who she was personally...

Are the times for a permanent ban?  Yes!

Should their be a probationary period for some of those (like not posting anything for a period of time but still be allowed to use the Marketplace) come on, the bucks supporting the site.

Of course I'm focusing on two  models...Aiko and the Girl...but like Capn' said whose next?  What new model will be considered "bad"?

I still hate kitties and still support the troops...tired me go sleep.

Very much alive!  Still a ton of freebies and hero maps!

Damn, Crimson makes so much sense.   Gotta love a thinker.  

We are never going to come to a compromise on what makes Aiko and the Girl "too young".

Yet can we just come to one as far a the permanent ban issue? 

A week ban each offense, sounds good to me, (oops after the second warning). 

Also, those guys who were banned should be allowed to come join the fold again.....I would name 6 off the top of my head but we can't name names.  Those who on their last few renders were banned because of either Aiko or the Girl.

                                                    or

Just ban nude Aiko and the Girl completely, that way you don't have to ask the above to rejoin...or in most cases un suspend their accounts...at least five of those guys I mentioned above still have their profiles listed here...just they're galleries are gone.

Of course if someone post a nude Maddie on some man's lap or doing something blatently sexual, yes ban away and throw away the key (the same for Laurie) but in the case of those banned artist that I know this wasn't the case, except for my bud who does admit he posted a nude Millineum girl in a cloning tank (it was later removed and modified so she had clothes on) but that was a simple "oops never read the TOS mistake a long time ago.  

Come on....

I'm about to write something that is going to sound stupid....but please bear with me.

"A signed model release with Photo-ID must be provided upon request if posting images with photographic nudes."

So I send a release in, the model in 25 but she looks 13, I put nude photos of her up.  People think she's 13, there's an uproar, the staff says no she 25 we have a photo ID.

So because the mods know the girl is not a girl and she in fact is a woman, it's good. Even though the report button is hit once a day, the Mods know.

Someone give me a yes or no.

So what if I told the Mods my charecter is of age....I mean since I created her only I would know her age, or perhaps on my render I left some text indicating the charecters age.  Then the Mods would know I'm depicting a charecter over the age 18 and that's all that matters if the answer to the above question is yes.

Because in the end, what you find more offensive a real life woman you thought was a underage nude or a 3D charecter you thought was an LFMAO underage nude?

Did you hear that?  All net...3 points!

I persnally like the "Sall I'm asking" that had me LFMAO, can't believe I've never thought of that.  I've read the TOS, several, serveral times...and several more since this thread (picked that baby apart as much as I could) but this thread wouldn't exist if some of us thought we needed clarification on those models and possibly future ones.  The TOS is specific but the interpretation of it by all (Mods included) is what is muddled.  
I'd love to go through this whole thread again and pull out quotes from "the establishment" which seems to have muddled the whole thing up more.  I don't think this threadom would have lasted as long as it has if clearer guidance had been given.

But like I said before, I don't envy y'alls (see I can do it too) position, taint easy (oooh did it again, gold star!).  I think a lot of times you all get stuck with "yes I was speeding but there were two guys who flew past me" I also think that often times the traffic is slow and the one guy who is doing the speed limit gets pulled over....and there are too numerous times when two streets with the same amount of traffic, side by side in one the speed limit is 50 in the other it's 25.....I call those streets Vicky Big Bood and Sword Avenue and Aiko road...

I was going to attempt to write something witty but "Sall" still has me cracking up.

In total agreement with the above but I think some really good guidance needs to be given on Aiko and the Girl.  Right now it's vague because it's based on opinion, not on facts.  Such as:

Mods: it looks like a little girl

Artist:  Hey the charecter is anime/sci fi/fairy and in this setting it's an adult....

Now not to step on any toes...the mods are the voice of opinion, and the artist the voice of fact (because the artist created it, only the artist would know what the true age of the charecter is)

Problem is the guildlines are based on the opinions of a few....but that few seems to be a majority of the mods.  If an image has 100 views and one person hits the report button it's safe to say that a majority of the viewers didn't take offense or see the charecter as a child, but then the Mods come in and the image is gone and if this is the artist 3rd time...so is the artist (btw very weak answer Karen....it should have been cut and dry as the TOS states...I'll touch on that down below).

Now with the image I posted and follow up question:

If this was an artist third time and the charecter was topless would the artist be banned?

Karen stated it was a hypothetical situation so it can't be answered....although the mods have stated several times that third strike and you're out forever.   Why is there now a change in the position where it's a "case by case" basis.  The strong line of three strikes you're out has changed...why?  Is it because even though the same person said this was clearly an underage girl but now jumps to the "case by case basis"....I could write forever on this, but I'd like others to form their own opinions, since I can't post my resume....

I can connect all the dots, but I'm trying to "dumb" things down as much as possible and be brief....which until now, I never knew it was that hard (or maybe I'm just long winded).  LOL

Peace, love and Chicken grease!

Uh, oh.   NO V4 nudes!!!! unless she has fairy wings

Hey me and the Captain agree...does that mean I don't support the troops.  Damn, I don't support the troops, damn I suck.  I should really support the troops. Ok, I'll support the troops and claim this is some bipartisan thing, yeah, yeah, that's it....ok me and the Captain agree, but I think we should stay there until we achieve complete victory!!!  Oops wrong subject.

Ok, now seriosly.  Captain Jack does make a wonderful point, I'd like to add on it by saying, then what is next?  Animedoll?  The Girl  and Aiko are taboo, so Animedoll is the next step....oooh what about Alexa?  I'm afraid it'll get contagious and just spread and then where I be able to see Big Boob Vicki in temple with Sword? YOU TELL ME AMERICA, WHERE?!

I also seemed to have offended CrimsonDesire, that wasn't my intent, my intent then was Captain Jack and the other guy (to which I apologized for).

CrimsonDesire has proven to be pro anime but has come into this with solutions and impartiality...most of us seem to be on one side of the fence or the other. 

Karen...I know you don't ban on the first offense....read the above question again, I didn't say, nor  did I imply (I like using the word "nor")  I said if this were my THIRD (I put it in caps to be a little snippy because of the upteenth thing and 'cause you don't support the troops) offense would that lead to...

Ok, done reading.   The charecter was made to appear young and to not appear young, if asked the same question....I really couldn't give her an age.  Did I try to confuse and confound?  Yes, I did I didn't want the answer to be a simple "yes" or "no" from either side.  I wanted everyone to understand two points:

1.  It's not easy being a Mod
 
2.  This charecter coudl have went either way, had I given her a gun (as one person suggested) the desicion would have been easier.  I picked the clothes to further confound, the plushie to distract and make people assume, the legs and breast for the same reason opposite point.  Determining Aiko's age isn't easy, and with some morphs very, very hard but if the Mods correspond with those put on "Banning/warning" trial, is silly, when they could just as easily remove the image...and state why.  No matter how many times or at very wost a week's banning but permanent?   

To the Mods, if she did not have a top, would I have recieved a warning?  If it had been my third warning and she was topless would I have been permantly banned?

To all, do you think if she was topless and this was my third incident that I should have been permantly banned?

Capn' give the folks a chance to answer/respond and then I think I'm in the need of a kitty break (even tho' Cat's don't support the troops)

To all, 
   I haven't even read the rest of the threads off this yet but I do get one resounding theme...I may have been a little to harsh.  My apologies, had a very, very, very bad day.  I won't go into details about the why and how but it was bad.  
   Sometimes with my job, you have to take a deep breath and agree or at the very least comply.  Yesterday was a very complying day and I watched people try to pretty much rip a man to shreds, when all the guy ever does is look out for others.  To watch that happen to someone and knowing you can't voice your opinion does.  
   Then the Aiko thing...well it effects the same guy and I keep thinking "wtf" why is it when people try to do the right thing, they're the first to get slammed.  
   Today, he comes in and you swear the guy just one the olympics or something because he wasn't fazed, just kept doing what he always does.
   Now I'll read what else was posted and know that to a degree I probably deserve the slinging that will come my way.  

Dee

Quote -
It's images like that is why I stay out of the Poser gallery.

And it's comments like that the keep me out of the forums.  No real substance, just an attack.

What the both of you have basically said was
"Oh there was this one person...."
   meaning the exception to the rule.  I know a man that's in his late 30's and looks 15....so does that mean every 15 year old I see in 38, nope.

So rather than make a point, you've proved the opposite by showing that no matter what you're going to say underage using you're "I once knew a "  or "a serious glandular problem"

Using those ideas one could say if you are a Priest then that means you must like little boys, because you're basing your thoughts and opinions on the extreme cases.

Attached Link: Of age or underage