I say anything that isn't made using a graphics tablet shouldn't be allowed. After all it's the closest thing to a pen, pencil or brush etc and we are making 'art' aren't we? ;O)

I'll go along with that. Voters...Votees receive votes don't they?

Message edited on: 10/06/2004 14:57

1. Yes 2. Yes (Going back in my box).

I thought I did...I'll try again. The truth is that there are a lot of people that just aren't proficient enough in their chosen fractal generator to make what they want and probably never will be. Whether it's a lack of time, patience, savvy or any other reason. Post-work balances the equation so they can put their vision on the screen. As far as i'm concerned as soon as you add a signature to an image you have post-worked it, unless you add it inside a fractal generator. Saving an image in one format and then converting it in an image editing software is also post-work. Putting a frame on an image in an image editing software is yet again post-work. So to say you are adamant on NO post-working is folly because you clearly are post-working. Trying to figure out a limit for post-work and laying down a set of rules is pointless because people view it from different perspectives. As far as i'm concerned if you used a fractal generator in the process of making an image then it deserves to be in the Fractal Gallery...Anything else is just a waste of my time. If people want to post fractals with poser figures or anything else in them then they are welcome to...If I or anyone else doesn't want to see them then they just don't have to look at them... Moving them from gallery to gallery is pointless. It takes the same amount of bandwidth wherever it is placed and just makes more work for people. If there's a fractal in it...It belongs here! Matt.

So, the idea is to become a fractal master? That's where i've been going wrong! I better quit Jedi school and enrol in the tight arse academy of fractal snobbery... If I want to make a UF image, I will. If I want to make an Apophysis image, I will. If I want to make a Xenodream image, I will and if I want to make a Photoshop image, I will. If I want to make a UF image and then rape the shit out of it in Photoshop, I will. Anyone that doesn't like it, doesn't have to look at it. Matt. (My interest has suddenly rekindled).

ZZZzzz Not constructive but it sums up how I feel about this subject perfectly. Matt.

Nope, nothing to do with me, Keith. This is only my second time here in as many weeks. I only come here when I get an ebot message saying someone has replied. Which doesn't seem to work on every reply posted. Apart from that, i'm indefinitely (possibly permanently) out to lunch. Matt. (Now in near total apathy).

Like Harmen said...An option to turn off voting when you upload an image, like you can for comments and rating. It wouldn't cure the problem, but it would make those of us who would use it feel better.

Limit the uploads even more...It used to be 3 uploads per day and is now 1 upload per day. Personally, I would be happy with 1 upload per 'week', but it should definately be maybe 2 or 3 per week.

Let's face it, fractals take less time than other types of art to make. It is quite easy for someone to knock out 1 a day (whether they will be any good is a different matter).

Limiting it more will have two beneficial effects in my opinion...

1. You will have more time to create images and thus the results will be better and you will have more time to improve yourself and techniques and thus the results will be better. A win/win situation.

2. Those people who complain about not having time to view or comment because of the amount of postings per day will find it easier. Less images will be posted so you will have more time to look at them.

A knock on effect of this is that you will be able to leave more constructive comments because you have more time. This will also hopefully result in people improving more.

The answer is obvious to me, but whether or not it will ever happen is another matter entirely. I believe (correct me if i'm wrong) that the only reason the number of postings per day was reduced last time was because of bandwidth problems.
I doubt if Renderosity will reduce it further unless a similar problem arises...It's a shame really.

Matt.

(Not angry any more).

Message edited on: 09/19/2004 04:54

Keith, after my experiment, I know the only way I will ever get into the Hot 20. If I NEVER get in there again then I will consider myself lucky to not be a puppet. Now for the bit where I piss people off again... Any group of 'friends' that base their relationship on commenting and voting for each other, isn't a group that I want to be a part of. Especially when they ostracize a 'friend' who dares to question their behaviour. The V thing wasn't even a problem until this year. Those of us who have been here longer will remember when it never happened. I personally miss those times because this whole gallery has gone downhill in the last year or so. Apart from a few exceptions most people seem content with just finding something that appeals to as many people as possible, and then replicating it on a daily basis. That isn't art, it's popularity. When you stop doing things for 'your' pleasure and start doing them for other peoples pleasure, then you are just a puppet. Apophysis is a fantastic program, probably my all time favourite, but it is also the worst culprit. I see wave upon wave of just plain 'bad' flame images posted. The real problem is that the 'friends' just plain lie to eachother. Telling eachother how fantastic each piece of crap is. Lauding it as the best thing since leonardo, Michelangelo or any other ninja turtle they remember. Is it any wonder that when you look through these peoples galleries you find that they are doing exactly the same thing that they were doing a year ago? Why change when you are apparently the greatest living fractal artist in the world? Here's a radical idea... Stop commenting on your 'friends' images for a while and see what happens... After all 'real' friends support eachother no matter what... How many people are willing to give up praise for the pursuit of better art? Don't bother answering that question beause I already know the answer. Just stick your head back in the sand and wallow in the praise. Matt. (If you think this harsh and over the top then go tell it to someone who gives a shit. You know...One of your friends). P.S. I'm not disillusioned anymore, just angry.

The gallery limit is now 1 image per day unless you pay $5 a month for gallery plus which lets you upload 3 images per day. Matt.

Does anyone know what the longest thread is in this forum? I VOTE that we keep on with this and make it longer than any thread in the history of threadiness... If it gets too long then I will bring some beers and someone else can bring some snacks and we will have a thread party!!! We could even wear our virtual party hats and dance to copyright infringed MP3's. We could have a game of fractal charades (how the hell do you mime 'Mandelbrot' anyway?) and tell jokes and stories about the fractals that got away... Or maybe I just need to open a few more windows and let out more of these paint fumes... Matt. (And yes I know it's off topic :OP).

After reading what Arend has written, I think I get the gist of what he was trying to say. He may not have come across as tactfully as someone that speaks english natively, but I tend to agree with what he's saying for the most part. If this upsets people and they feel the need to 'boycott' my images from now on then go right ahead and do that. To put it bluntly, I couldn't care less. I have a life, I have a family and I have friends, and if someone chooses to not comment on something I made while I was waiting for something better to do. well, then that doesn't affect any of the priorities in my life and i'm not gonna waste any time thinking about it. It's natural to retaliate when someone has upset you or hurt you, I used to do it all the time and it's taken me a long time to realise it's not worth it. IT'S JUST A WEBSITE PEOPLE!!! If someone upsets you, then do what I do... Turn off the computer and go back to the real world, because no matter how bad it might be...at least it isn't virtual. Matt. (All the people i've upset with this post should take my advice and turn off their computers. You never know what might happen then...You may even have a conversation with someone you can actually see...)

Personally, I think i'll wait until i've seen all the evidence and heard both sides of the story before I pass judgement, until then I will give the person the benefit of the doubt. After all since his native language isn't english and we all know what a poor grasp of the language he has then this could all be a misunderstanding. I'm not saying this because he is a good friend of mine because he isn't, I barely know him. Also, I think you were out of line naming him, Eveline. No matter what your intentions were you have no doubt cast more suspicion on this person from people who didn't even know who it was before. Until he chooses to step forward and explain/defend himself he should have remained anonymous. Lastly, the Hot 20 is a crock of shit. How many times are we going to have to say this before people start listening? I just took a look at it and all 20 spots are occupied by 8 people...That's an average of 2 and a half images per person (i'm a wiz at mathematics). Out of those 20 I can only see '2' maybe 3 that deserve to be there... I wasn't going to say anything about this but... A while ago I did an experiment, some may remember it 'The BFS Experiment'? It wasn't just an experiment in spirals but also in popularity and manipulation. I wanted to see if I could increase the number of comments I received just by commenting on every image that was posted. The average number of comments that I received per image up until the start of the experiment was...10.4 The average number per image while I was commenting on everything that was posted was...23.3 That's an increase of like...130%? (I lied, i'm not a wiz at mathematics). When I stopped commenting again the average per image dropped back down to...12.8 and now it has gone back to about the same as it was before I started. The really interesting thing is, that before and since the experiment I hadn't had an image that got into the Hot 20 in a long time. Yet while it was going on I got '2' in there at the same time...coincidence? I don't think so. I'm not saying that people who comment on every image are purposely manipulating their own work. I'm just saying that commenting (and voting) inevitably brings these results whether you are trying for it or not. I wasn't even being 'over the top' in my comments. I didn't laud everything as a masterpiece but just said it was a nice image. That doesn't mean I didn't like the images I commented on either, it just means they were nice. I can't help wondering how many comments I would have got if i had been over the top though... So, anyone that is lacking in the comments and votes department...You know what to do... As for me, i'm back where I started and happier for it. Only getting comments from people who actually like the images for what they are and not for what they get them in return (ie. comments and votes). No one feels pressurised to comment on my images and I don't feel the same to comment on theirs. I may go weeks without posting a single comment or I may comment on every image posted today. The decision is in my hands. Matt.

Even better than I imagined it, Val. Heh heh, nice one :O)

Keith, the guidelines are right above the banner 'Fractals Forum FAQ'. Think it could do with being a bit more obvious since it's something everyone should read. Maybe a big pink neon sign with a half naked poser babe next to it? Matt.