ok... i spent the morning here and I need to get on with my day... ill be back tonight sometime.

Quote -
I dont know of a DAZ Employee who would have called you a traitor.

From my perspective you can betray a piece of software. I really wish we could all release our irrational defense of particular art tools and get over it.

that should have read:

From my perspective you CAN'T betray a piece of software. I really wish we could all release our irrational defense of particular art tools and get over it.

sorry

Quote - Is Daz ever going to address the issue of DS not working with a WACOM mouse? Works with the pen, but not with the mouse.

Have you submitted this as a feature request and/or bug?

Quote - I think Daz is biting off its nose to spite its face, as the old sayig goes, by not making Vicky 5 compatible with Poser. I do not have the money to invest in yet another 3D program that requires all sorts of plugins at additional costs to do what Poser does. Ex. The cloth room. Besides, I have the free version of Daz Studio 4 and can't figure it out. It is not intuitive at all,  or my version is not working!

There is a common misunderstanding that is re-enforced by your post here that V5 is somehow equal to V4 in its individual scope.  That somehow we set out to create another new figure and exclude Poser users yet again.

The fact is simply this. V5 isnt a new figure, its an addition to Genesis. A spectacular addition that pushes the boundries of the tech... but an addition nonetheless. Its a new Paradigm that shares very little with the previous one. We are committed to the Genesis platform because we believe that it has merit and we are seeking to bring it to Poser and other 3D environments. V5 is just another iteration of it. We could no more "Make V5 Poser compatible" than we can Genesis because it IS Genesis.

Having said that... we are working on it. :D

Quote - Funny how someone with proper knowledge of a horse's anatomy doesn't get shut down and ridiculed as someone (or make that plural) with proper knowledge of human anatomy did (back in the other place). It smells fishy.

But anyway, some seem to forget that there really aren't only Poser users who are unhappy with how things are going. Some of us longtime DS users are more than happy to make the switch in programs due to the treatment received. Some of us are even being called traitors.

What of it?

Horse anatomy may vary a lot, but i think there is a lot mor generalization when you start talking about animals so there isnt as much emotion in it.

The human body has so many variations that one representation of any part of it can seem alien to another example. its very hard to come up with one presentation that will connect with everyones personal perceptions.

When we were making the V5 Genitalia for example I can tell you that none of you girls... not one... look the same. its like fingerprints. Which shape do you choose? I dont mean to be crass with that example, its just the latest example of it that I had to deal with.

If I recall correctly, you had opinions on our presentation of human anatomy that were soundly rebuked... sorry about that.

I dont think its fair to hold the company DAZ 3D responsible for some of the things said by its fans.  In your case, there were people who disagreed with your medical assessment of the anatomy in question but it wasn't the company shutting you down.

Our Forum users do not represent the company viewpoint. they do not speak for us and should not be confused with or thought of as being synonymouswith DAZ 3D. Even employees or representitives can go off reservation and not accurately express the company perspective.

I dont know of a DAZ Employee who would have called you a traitor.

From my perspective you can betray a piece of software. I really wish we could all release our irrational defense of particular art tools and get over it.

Quote - I find it interesting that he says that he is familiar with Antonia WM when it was just released yesterday.

 

Bill

Its not all that interesting is it?

Ive been following Antoina for a long time. I am on these forums a lot and I do my research.  Just because I work for DAZ does not mean that I am not a thriving member of the 3D art community. I have been involved since the first day Poser 1 was released and used Poser exclusively up until Version 8.

While I have been a major fan of DAZ 3D since Zygote... I am only recently an employee (april 2011) One of the reasons I was seen as an asset was my connection to this community and my longtime experience in the field.

I dont see the use of any tool as any reason to band together in loyal groups. HAMMERS YEAH!!!! Screw those Wrench Guys!!! Hammers are where its at!!!!  LOL... to me DS and Poser are tools for creating art no different than charcoal pastels and paint.  They can both live together peacefully in your art toolbox and each can be used to their strengths in your pursuit of the perfect expression of your artistic soul.

Just because I use one or the other more does not mean I shut off my intake of information and sequester myself away from those who have different preferences.

In short... dont be surprised. Im here a lot and I like to know whats up and I love a good product that will help me make art no matter where it comes from.

Quote - You might be surprised how many people have looked at Antonia....but opinions on its overall usability may vary, particularly by some of the professionals in this industry. So some are just being poilite and witholding their comments, rather than see things get inflamed.

However out of respect to the OP I think  it better suited that I comment on daz specific issues.

I have found it very hard to get involved with daz studio. I found it very unintuitive, but when version 4 came out, I found it to be much more user friendly (to me) than any previous version. To me it flows like I would expect a 3d application to work. But even that was not enough to encourage me to get serious about the program.

What did push me into finally trying it was the versistility of the genesis figure. Say what you will about it and its functionality in poser, but in daz studio itself, it has HUGE potential. I am able to make creatures using it that I could not even dream of with earlier generation figures. So I totally appreaciate all the tech that is behind genesis and ds4.
I am an artist, so what the tech actually is or how it works doesnt matter to me, what matters is what I am able to do with it.

That said is where my issues with ds4 come up. I am still not able to get renders that look as good as I do with poser. I admit that alot may be due to my own ignarance of the program, so I am still trying to learn. But that said...it is not easy to go from being able to get good renders relatively quick in poser to spend hours and hours in ds and still not have things look good. I think a big problem for me is the lights. It seems every light set does things differently, so there is no real consistancy when rendering scenes. Maybe this simply means that the lights are more versitile in ds and have more options, but the options are useless to me if I cant get them to work how i want.

I also dont like how ds4 eats up all my systems resources when rendering. I literally have to set up a render and then go away from the coumputer for hours, becaue I cannot do anything. This is a big issue for me. ds used to render so fast compared to poser, but somewhere along the way, it turned into a hog and that is killing me now.

So while I do like how ds4 and genesis are growing, and I LOVE the versistility of genesis as a figure and how all my old content works nicely on the new figure, there are still some overall functional issues i like to see worked on. But I do realize that ds4 is still the new kid on the block, I am sure it will get refined as it grows, it took poser a LONG time before it was up to the point of doing serious art as well. I like the ds4 innovations and look forward to seeing how they grow.

 

Rawn

There are new improvements to the implementation of 3DLight in Studio 4.1. Ive found render times to be much quicker.

Perhaps we will be able to shed some light on lights in our docs and new lesson strips that are in the works. Lesson Strips are in-app tutorial scritps that walk you through tutorials. 

I would be happy to talk with you about lighting offline if it would help in the meantime.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote -

... As a matter of personal taste, I do not care for her looks, and though she beds quite well, I do not necessarily agree that she bends better ...

Rand, this quote alone makes this thread worthwhile.

You've obviously got to know Antonia far better than you're letting on :-)

 

I am a content product manager... it would be silly for me not to research the competition ;)

Ha! Of course!

I was just amused by the phrase 'she beds quite well' ... in my country that has other connotations :-)

unfortunately humorous typo :D

Ahhhhhh...... thats it for me for the day... ill be back for fresh beatings tomorrow!

LOL... OK... you guys arent that bad. ;)

R

Quote - What does it take for everybody to understand and accept once for all that DAZ does not and will not change e.g. the way content is released? I personally never go beyond the first no; when I am told so, I go away and never again ask the question again (acting accordingly, needless to remark).

 

I never said that we woudn't change the way content is released. In fact, I purposefully said that it would be changed. Just not to individual zip files.

Quote - > Quote - I bought the Daz millenium horse for one job and had to scrap it because of the horrible distorted legs.  Still no fix that I am aware of. 

---I would be happy to look at an example. I have seen quite a few GORGEOUS renders of the Millenium Horse and I cant imagine what you mean without a reference.

Err... Daio, myself, and a whole host of other people who know about horses told Daz repeatedly about Rosinante's legs.
If it were a real horse, it couldn't walk. It would be put down.
To the layman it probably looks fine, but the front shins (cannon) are bowed/bulged slightly (even in SR1) the position of the knee being adjustable up and down???
The back cannon is actually worse than the front. (The front knee was a poorly done fix to the original version, where the relation between forearm and cannon was so off, it was scary. I remember half a million horse leg photos lol.)
There is proper relation between the length of a horses forearm and shin. Moving the knee up and down...really?
There is a lot wrong with that horse, but the first version was absolutely atrocious from a horse person's point of view. Holy yikes lol.
The neck. OMG the neck. You know a horse bends at the poll, right? Same as humans don't have the head attached to half way down their back with one bone. Would it make sense to have the head move at the point where it attaches to the spine, rather than about a hand length down the neck?
I realize that would create "crumple zones" at the top of the neck for some positions, so I can forgive it a little, but it often makes it very hard to pose the head naturally and a lot has to be fixed in postwork.
And the mane should/could have been done differently. Not attached to the neck.
For any future horse (and if you make one using Genesis you're going to really really upset people, I warn you now.) don't attach the mane, make it a separate figure supporting the morphs.

I strongly - strongly - suggest any modeller who does a new horse gets the model checked by a vet or a horse breeder before finalizing it.
You think if you released a human figure with legs that bow in the wrong direction, people wouldn't notice? :) Horses are among the most well known animals, along with dogs and cats. Getting those wrong will be noticed, because there will be enough experts in horse/dog/cat confimation to point it out to you.

Dangerous place to be, I'm sure. :)

Its WAAAAAAAAY to early for me to be telling you this but I am trying to bring on the next generation of Equines. It will happen....probably in the second quarter of 2012... but that isnt a promise and you didnt hear it from me B)

Quote - > Quote -

... As a matter of personal taste, I do not care for her looks, and though she beds quite well, I do not necessarily agree that she bends better ...

Rand, this quote alone makes this thread worthwhile.

You've obviously got to know Antonia far better than you're letting on :-)

I am a content product manager... it would be silly for me not to research the competition ;)

Quote - > Quote - Yes, many testers pushed hard for a 'classic' style interface and the result was the Darkside interface. Saying DAZ ignored it is a complete lie.

 

However, it is Advanced version (or higher) only, so it's not an option in standard DS.  So to get away from "Skittles" colors (sorry it's what they look like) you would immediately have to upgrade.  So that makes it conditionally true.

It would be nice to have included the style options originally available in DS 3 at the very least.  It feels like a step down visually in comparison (depending if you like the vibrant colors or not).

Or better yet... Rand, relay the idea of allowing the Darkstyle and other skins to be purchaseable separately at a reasonable cost.  I'd be prone to go for that.

There are new options coming to all versions of Studio that will satisfy some of what you are requesting here.

Quote - To All and DAZ_Rand,

 

I usually don't post and especially in such a thread that seems pretty heated, but I think everyone needs to look at some other issues. And I hope I dont upset anyone as that is not my intent.

DAZ_Rand was considerate enough to come to these forums to open a line of communication, which is appreciated. People need to remember that DAZ is a business and they wanted to make a product that was scalable, more functional, and addressed alot of the things that earlier versions had issues with such as joint bending, scalability, exporting etc...they are not responsible for SmithMicro's products or managing SmithMicro's coders. They are doing what they feel is best for their product line in order to be able to do things now and in the future while still making a profit. Could they have coded their product around another company's product..sure, but why should they when they have their own product from which they can control much more in the way so that their products function, scale, and are compatible...this is just good business practice.

Now I will say that on the other hand leaving out poser customers from part of their new product line of v5 whom they have supported in the past with v3 v4 etc...isn't a good feeling for those that like SmithMicro's Poser. They could in theory be loosing alot of money, former customers and future customers as well not only for v5 but for all the related products such as pose packs, morph packs, clothing packs etc...but at some point they had to make a choice. Sometimes a business only has so much money and time to do so much and meet a deadline. But I do agree with people that not supporting a poser compatible version from the start of v5 is disappointing, and they have lost some of the dollars they could have made even from myself. I also use Zbrush, Lightwave 3D, 3DSmax, Photoshop 3d paint etc...but as in all things you get what you pay for and Poser and Daz are pretty cheap/afforable cost-wise compared to other 3d software and especially compared to Autodesk gouging prices and subscription policies, but of course they do lack in quite a few things.

I understand alot of people's issues and I do not discount any of them, but even with all the issues, I want to see more exporting options....real collada support...better Zbrush compatibility...Lightwave exporting (even lightwave has had weightmaps for a long time now, I was actually surprised Poser and Daz didn't have this for a long time). What about UV mapping/pelting from within Poser and Daz itself....think Zbrush and how you can paint UV maps. What about better hair creation/options/etc....what about rendering like Fprime...etc...

I hope I didnt upset anyone that was not my intent...I just think people tend to forget that some decisions are made because of budget, deadline, future concerns about scalability, exportability, and of course business being profitable...SmithMicro and Daz are two different companies. Sometimes you wait forever for things that seem to never come about and it is fustrating, but use that fustration and improve your skills that will have a much better outcome.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks all.

Thanks for your requests and suggestions, I am noting all such feedback. I will ask if you have tried the latest GoZ fintionality that bridges DS to ZBrush... its pretty awesome.

You can paint weightmaps in DS if you have DS4 Pro. That functionality is part of the pro tools and not needed for many so they arent in the other versions.

Quote - ...for me the decision was simple. It wasn't Daz Forum politics.
It was the fact that several of the key system requirements of Daz Studio4 have basically rendered (npi) my machine obsolete.

The last version of the application (3.1) that does work (to a point) is no longer supported even though it still has serious issues with memory management, which will never be addressed.

That is where Daz lost me.

I cannot afford a new 64 bit machine to run Studio4 Advanced.

Even if my current system could support the S4A, running the 32 bit version would be a lesson extreme frustration due to the severe memory allocation limitations imposed which in turn usually result in the application crashing during the render process because of insufficient memory.

I like to do 3D CG to relax, not get angry or uptight, as it is the only way with my advancing RA (rheumatoid arthritis) that I can stay in touch with my lifelong creative outlet.

Hence, I had two choices, give it up altogether, or find something else that works.

To that end I have been working with the 32 bit version of Poser Pro 2010 which I discovered is much more stable on (and "gentler" to) my trusty 5 year old notebook.

---

My one main concern about Daz is that I feel they are trying too hard to move up the "3D CG industry ladder" too fast and so doing they are in danger of damaging their reputation and alienating their current customer base. While other 3D apps are fairly stable at release time, with Daz, everything seems to be in a continual state of beta development. However, on the other hand they require brokered content to be "bulletproof" before it will be accepted in the store.

Now this may be fine with regards to the free version of the Studio application. However, when it comes down to a "finished" commercial product (like Carrara or StudioAdvanced which customers are paying for) suffering from chronic instability which requires frequent updates and patches, it makes one begin to wonder "why am I shelling out my hard earned money for this?"

This has been an increasing concern among community members over the last couple years. The recent issues with the website and store only reinforce this. Were a similar situation to occur in any other company, it would have resulted in negative PR, the erosion of customer confidence, and subsequent sacking of the individuals responsible.

I am certainly sorry for your troubles. The only thing I can possibly say is that it is not a good business model for us to try to support every aging computer platform. Try playing one of the latest games on an older system... ouch!  We certainly do care about you but there will be limits we must draw when it comes to system requirements and invariably there will be a certain percentage of people who fall below the minimum. I wish it wasnt so.