Well, here's my suggestion:

Instead of slaving the eyes to every single head morph that's out there, why not morph/sculpt the face first, disregarding the eyes completely?

Only when you're finished, move the eyes into position!

Observation I made is, the more facial morphs you use, the bigger the chance is that the eyes go totally out of whack - see the numerous "eyes fix" injection poses in a lot of commercial characters.

Here's what I did:

In the "head" actor, I created 4 new "Master Parameters", called "Eyes Scale", "Eyes xTran", "Eyes yTran", and "Eyes zTran".

Then start "teaching" the dials to make both eyes scale or move with the master dial. (it would be a good idea to use inverse values for the eyes's "xTran" master, so you can easily move the eyes together/apart: left eye=negative, right eye=positive / or vice versa)

When you've finished, set the master dials's "Sensitivity" to a value which allows you to position or scale the eyes with the precision of tenth of a millimetre (e.g., when your units are "metres", set "Sensitivity" value at "0.001" for scale and "0.00001" for translations - or whatever suits your needs).

With this, you have "total eyes control" with the flick of just four buttons.

One more thing (TM):

Remember that when using the morph brush in the face, it will also "morph" the eyeballs, which might give you "unexpected" surprises. So, when using the morph brush, either set it to only work on the "head" actor (set "groups"), or else make sure to delete the morphs from the eyeballs afterwards! ALWAYS make sure that your head morphs don't affect the geometry of the eyeballs actors!

And finally, don't forget to save your figure (with the new dials) back to your library for future use: e.g. "V2 Eyes Fix" or something.

HTH

Peter

I just looked - Emma is a combination of the Morphs++ and an overlaying custom sculpt. The custom sculpt (set at 0.8) can be found in the "Community Channel" PBMCC_01 of the individual body parts (no master parameter in the BODY provided). So I don't think she's a perfect subject for Morkonan's studies.

Actually, I think most commercial characters are primarily dial-spun for conveniance of the creator. I mean, why invent the wheel twice if there's a morph which can do "nearly" what you want, and you only have to give it an extra pass with the morph brush?

I think that's the real secret of efficient character building: Use what prefabricated morphs there are, then use the morph brush to achieve exactly what you want.

At least it's much more efficient than creating everything from scratch, and dealing with all the pitfalls of morph creation (like sorting calculation order and much more).

HTH

Peter

@ rtamesis, estherau, and all others who now feel the (understandable) "knee-jerking" conditional reflex:

There's a reason why people like "woof359" are on many ignore lists. Please don't let him (and his "pardazeners", who will probably chime in "soon") derail this thread too.

Just ignore their posts, PLEASE for the sake of Project E!

EACH SINGLE answer posted is just a waste of time (because whatever you say won't change their minds in a million years, but will be used to cause more pointless "discussion").

It only derails this thread, and that's their real agenda achieved!

Or does anyone here still believe that you can "convince" them with arguments? LOL!

Thank you!

Peter

Razor42 posted at 8:47PM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239482 [snip]

Sssh Crystal, the grownups are talking. ;) Feel free to join in anytime you feel you have something meaningful to add.

Is that all you can resort to now, personally insulting a member as "Not Adult"?

Poor performance "Razor42", very poor indeed. Tsk...

At least it sheds a certain light at you.

Oh b.t.w., don't bother to insult me too - I won't read it because after this post you go right back to my ignore list where you are a permanent member.

I only "unignore" you occasionally, when I want to have a good laugh!

Khory_D posted at 8:23PM Wed, 18 November 2015 - #4239328

There is nothing propitiatory about the way the genesis 3 figures are set up and it was created to be more easily integrated into the wider industry. SM chose not to support those wider industry standards. They also chose not to integrate the initial genesis figures for what ever personal reasons.

And the other "wider industry" programs who fully support Genesis are which, please?

So will you stop pestering us with your ever-the-same "Genesis is Industry Standard" claims. It is not, and those claiming it is become a PITA. Seriously.

Regards

Peter

**Well well,

I must say I'm a little overwhelmed!**

If the changes to the rigging tools and the joint editor are really what they promise, then it's great news already.

Then come improvements to the (already great!) Morph Brush, plus the ability to create "Injection Morphs" right within Poser without the need of manual edits to the files etc. - I've been waiting for that for years!

The fact that the "Symmetry" command is now separated between "Mirror Rigging" and "Mirror Pose" will remove a lot of PITA too. Bravo!

One last question, and it's probably quite odd, because only a very few people mentioned this (oh irony! :D )

WILL THE HIERARCHY EDITOR FINALLY REMEMBER WHICH HIERARCHY TREES ARE COLLAPSED AND WHICH ARE NOT, INSTEAD OF DISPLAYING THEM ALL IN A MILE-LONG, EVERYTHING-UNCOLLAPSED LIST?

I mean, it's nothing big to code - it already exists in the "groups" part of the "channels" of each actor, and the "magic code" is as simple as this:

"collapsed 1"

Please pretty please!!!

Regards

Peter

JVRenderer posted at 10:08PM Mon, 05 October 2015 - #4232306

To answer the OP question: Why do you need to leave V4. She's not going anywhere. You have her in your runtime(S). I bet you, just like me, have so much V4 content that if you create one render per day, It'll take you a few years to use up all her content.

If you want to explore other figures, whether Genesis or Dawn, just add them to your arsenal. You don't need to abandon V4.2 Don't let others (you know who you are) persuade you into buying stuff you don't want. You don't owe them anything. It is your choice and your money. You have full control of it. Dawn, G1, G2, G3 will not make your art better. You, as an artist makes those figures look good.

[...]

I use V4, Dawn, G2F in poser, G3F in DS4.8 Render on. JV

We definitely need some kind of "like" button here... Thanks JVRenderer, that was very well said!

shvrdavid posted at 7:38PM Tue, 22 September 2015 - #4230000

[...] There is a way to mirror the mapping when rigging non symmetrical wire frames using scripts, but it breaks far to easily. Accidentally mirror the rigging with Posers built in commands and it is all over....

I've always wondered why the "mirror" function in the POSE room comprises the unnecessary, "danger-of-clicking-the-wrong-button", and annoying request to mirror the joint setup as well.

• You see, in the Pose Room, all I want to do is mirror A POSE.
• If I want to mirror joint setups, I go to the SETUP room, or use the Joint Editor, don't I?

So please SKIP this nag box unless I'm in the Setup Room, or have the Joint Editor Window open. In it's current state it's just a nuisance, and has a large potential of inadvertently destroying a figure's setup / rig.

Thank you

-Peter-

P.S.: I've reposted this message in the "PP2016 wishlist" thread at the other "R..." forum - Maybe it catches the attention of someone in charge... -P-

I wonder whether there is a way to make Cycles automatically detect the shader system used, and automatically adjust / convert what there is?

I.M.O, this would be the most versatile way for all, and the best of both worlds.

-P-

Thank you for posting this render, digitell.

Her elbow bends look extremely good, and from what I can see her shoulders/armpits are OK too.

However, her feet still suffer from what I noticed in the base figure as it came out:

Look at her toes - they are way to narrow compared to the foot (like as if they were scaled to 80% size). I do understand that it helps when putting on shoes to avoid poke through - but for barefoot renders it looks a bit off.

(yes, you may call me kind of a foot fetishist :D) But then, I do care for such details which can make the uncanny valley a bit deeper than it already is...

But that's not your fault. "Au contraire" - that's a bloody nice character you've created here!

Regards,

-P-

I've collected a vast amount of props and sceneries.
I've learned how to do "kit-bashing" to create any scenery or prop from what I have already.
So my needs are saturated in that aspect.

Most of my characters are sculpted by myself, for myself.
The other "random extras" characters which I need occasionally use a mere portion of some custom "dial-spun" characters, plus my own modifications. Just some dials spun.

The reason why I still buy pre-made characters is: TEXTURES!!!

There are a lot of character vendors out there.
I mostly don't care about the characters, because, as said above, I do make my own.

But there are a few vendors out there who deliver some exceptionally good body textures, and I buy everything from them!

Of course, I do a lot of texture editing too, to fit one of my custom characters, but that's not the question here.
So I'll name just one single vendor here, because she/he? produced the best textures I ever saw for Poser:

• DANAE -

There are other texture artists who produce great maps, but it would be too much biased if I'd post a roster here, so I won't.

SUMMARY:

Whoever creator/vendor can sell me high quality texture maps gets my money.
The times of "painted" texture maps are definitely over.

So "Danae" is my hero, until someone steps up to provide something even better.

-Peter-

Since I can't edit my above post any longer, I'll post an updated, spell-checked, and in some instances more detailed post.
Did I mention that the Rendo limits set to edit a post are ridicoulously narrow?

EDITED POST TO FOLLOW:

I don't think that there will be answers to your question, because from all that I know it isn't possible right within Poser for now.

Poser is quite good in creating and editing "valueOpKey" dependencies, and (with some caveats) it can add additional dials to the "valueOpDeltaAdd" dependencies.

However, from all I know it -can not add- any of the other dependency types.

Your best chance to add these is indeed the good 'ole text editor - or even better: "Poser File Editor" by Dimension3D (http://d3d.sesseler.de/index.php?software=posertool&product=poser_ed")

Here's how I proceed:
I write the code once in a text editor, e.g.:

valueOpTimes // just to pick an easy example
Figure 1 //or respective figure number;
BODY:1 // the location of the master dial; mind the correct figure number!
myNewMorph22 // the internal name of the master dial;

This code remains the same for whereever you paste it to, and I use Poser File Editor for pasting this because the relevant "target dials" are much easier to find in it's hierarchical list. Then a simple "CTRL-V" at the right place, and that's it.// the location of the master dial constant;
(Read the "P.P.S." to learn about where the "right place" is!)

Only when it comes to "valueOpDeltaAdd", I prefer to use "valueOpKey" instead because I can set that up much faster in Poser than hacking a "valueOpDeltaAdd" into the .cr2 manually, and compute the value of "deltaAddDelta xxx" would have to be done for each instance.
--> The more complex it gets, the more errors may occur...
So I'm quite comfortable to buy convenience for the price of some bytes of extra code (the "valueKey xxx xxx" lines)

One last idea:
The "valueOpKey" will only work within the dial range specified:
e.g. if you've set a "valueKey" to "-0,5 -35", the master dial will only work within that range and then stop.
So if you want to extend the range (whether that makes sense isn't the question here), just use a plain text editor, search for term "valueKey", and on each find, multiply both key values by 100, or 1000, or 2525 :)
So, "valueKey -0.5 -35" becomes "valueKey -500 -35000" (if x1000)

Sorry ka06059,
from your question I guess that you'll probably know all this already, and more.
I only replied more detailed in case others might wish to look into that too, and maybe learn some tricks.

I think especially the "valueOpTimes", when applied cleverly, can do some amazing tricks.

-Peter-

P.S.:
Be cautious with the "valueOpDivideBy" because of the dreaded "division by zero" problem which still, after sooo many years, can still grind a computer to a halt.
So if you want to use this, then use "constants" in the form of specific, hidden, and locked dials:

actor BODY:1
...
...
valueParm zeroPointFive
name NeverChangeThis-IMeanIt!
initValue 0.5
hidden 1
forceLimits 1
min 0.5
max 0.5
...
keys
k 0 0.5
...

In the dependent parameter:

valueOpDivideBy
Figure 1 //or respective figure number;
BODY:1 // the location of the master dial constant;
zeroPointFive // the name of the master dial constant;

et voilá, you have reduced the dial value by factor 0.5

P.P.S.: I just remembered that with these "math" valueOps, the order of the dependencies is important in computing the dial's actual value:
Everything that, in the source plain text, comes before the valueOp will be affected by it. Everything that comes after it, won't!

So you can actually add dial "a", subtract dial "b", divide it by >constant< 0.5, then add dial "c", and finally multiply the result with dial "d".
This is an extreme example, but it has much potential!

P.P.P.S.:
I know that the forum will FU my code indents; sorry for this :

I don't think that there will be answers to your question, because from all that I know it isn't possible right within Poser for now.

Poser is quite good in creating and editing "valueOpKey"dependencies, and (with limitations) it can add additional dials to the "valueOpDeltaAdd" dependencies.

However, from all I know it can not add any of the other dependency types.

Your best chance to add these is indeed the good'ole text editor - or even better: "Poser File Editor" by Dimension3D (http://d3d.sesseler.de/index.php?software=posertool&product=poser_ed")

I write the code once in a text editor, e.g.:

valueOpTimes // just to pick an easy example
Figure 1 //or respective figure number;
BODY:1 // the location of the master dial;
myNewMorph22 // the internal name of the master dial;

This code remains the same for whereever you paste it to, and I use Poser File Editor for pasting this because the relevant "target dials" are much easier to find in it's hierarchical list. Then a simple "CTRL-V" at the right place, and that's it.

Only when it comes to "valueOpDeltaAdd", I prefer to use "valueOpKey" instead because I can set that up much faster in Poser than hacking it into the .cr2 manually, and to compute the value of "deltaAddDelta xxx" would have to be done for each dependency. The more complex it gets, the more errors may occur... So I'm quite comfortable to buy convenience for the price of some bytes of extra code (the "valueKey xxx xxx" lines)

One last idea:
The "valueOpKey" will only work within the dial range specified:
e.g. if you've set a "valueKey" to "-0,5 -35", the master dial will only work within that range and then stop.
So if you want to extend the range (whether that makes sense isn't the question here), just use a plain text editor, search for term "valueKey", and on each find, multiply both key values by 100, or 1000, or 2525 :)
So, "valueKey -0.5 -35" becomes "valueKey -500 -35000"

Sorry, from your question I guess that you'll probably know all this already, and more.
I only replied more detailed in case others might wish to look into that too, and maybe learn some tricks.

I think especially the "valueOpTimes", when applied cleverly, can do some amazing tricks.

-Peter-

P.S.:
Be cautious with the "valueOpDivideBy" because of the dreaded "division by zero" problem which still, after sooo many years, can still grind a computer to a halt.
So if you want to use this, then use "constants" in the form of specific, hidden, and locked dials:

actor BODY:1
...
...
valueParm zeroPointFive
name NeverChangeThis
initValue 0.5
hidden 1
forceLimits 1
min 0.5
max 0.5
...
keys
k 0 0.5
...

In the dependent parameter:

valueOpDivideBy
Figure 1 //or respective figure number;
BODY:1 // the location of the master dial constant;
zeroPointFive

et voilá, you have reduced the dial value by factor 0.5

P.P.S.: I just remembered that with these "math" valueOps, the order of the dependencies is important in computing the dial's actual value:
Everything that, in the source plain text, comes before the valueOp will be affected by it. Everything that comes after it, won't!

So you can actually add dial "a", subtract dial "b", divide it by >constant< 0.5, then add dial "c", and finally multiply the result with dial "d".
This is an extreme example, but ir has much potential!

P.P.P.S.:
I know that the forum will FU my formatting; sorry for this :

My list is rather short.

############

• I use "ULEAD PhotoImpact 10" for messing with texture maps, and postwork. (Yes! Really! and V10 is from 2004, when it was still a Taiwanese company!)

• Then there's the indispensable "Poser File Editor" (V2.0) by Ralph Sesseler for working under the hood.

• "EditPadLite 7" also is used when working with files (and for writing this text).

• There are a few Python scripts which I use regularly, namely Netherworks' "PoseWriterPanel" which is the best invention since they invented sliced bread. Plus some other scripts by PhilC, Ralph Sesseler, and SnarlyGribbly (ordered alphabetically, not by polularity!).
  Most of all I use some scripts written for my own use to lock props or figures, so that my characters are immune against bad poses or expressions files.

• Last but not least, the tool without which no creator could live - "UV Mapper". The ability to easily get rid of unused "usemtl" statements in the .obj file, and the ability to combine material zones, I use more often than I actually create or edit UV maps...
  Special thanks to 3DFineries for the heads-up re. LithUnwrap, I'll look into that - for the same reason why you use it.

############

I do believe that working with a few tools which I know by heart, and can use to the max, is better then messing around with dozends of them, but not really having a clue of what I'm doing (I'm a slow learner...)

I do consider to have a shot at 3D-Coat. The idea of Voxels seems interesting. Anyone here who already uses it?
Thanks

The reason why I use Poser as my main app is simply because I didn't see any other 3D program yet which is so easy to use, is so much fun to work with, and has a friendly price tag on it too.
I do render stories, i.e. a sequence of panels, and often, going from one panel to the next, it's just to change a pose, an expression, a camera angle, and then render the next panel.
If I had to export/import, render, seeing flaws, re-export/re-import, re-render for every single panel, I'd rather shoot myself in the foot :)

However, I understand that there's a difference between rendering a whole story with 100 panels vs. creating a single, perfect still image. So please don't kill me for my preference :)

-Peter-

P.S.:
forgot one program - "The KMplayer" to listen to my music when I'm working with the Morph Brush:
That, while listening to some good Chill or Trance music, is almost Zen ;)
"Ommmm..."

I agree, the render quality is quite good for an airbrush pattern on a trailer.

Now try to paste your render into a real photograph and let's look how real it still looks...

custom made morphs don't really show much about the quality of the base mesh, because so much can be ironed out with a custom morph. So this argument is moot.

I'll skip your further comments, because you seem to contradict yourself.

Also learning how to do proper lighting is also a must before trying to come for someone that has more experience than you.  

I suggest you challenge BagginsBill then. Looking forward to that thread :D

But of course, for a super professional as you are, it shouldn't be a problem.

Tina Turner: "You're simply the best - better than all the rest"

Yes. Dream on.