Quote - > Quote - Oh and most of the Christmas freebies are Genesis or DS, too.

That's what will drive people away.

Please stop that, because that's not true.

The PAs run the Christmas giveaway not DAZ. DAZ gave us the server space to host the freebies. There was a good number of freebies that works in Poser that were given away including two V4 head morphs and 3 M4 head and body morphs on two separate days that I (as well as other PAs) took time out between working on other project to do... (and I got another V4 to release) just to hear someone whine two posts later that Poser users haven't gotten anything. Really?

It really grates my nerves to hear people groan about how many freebies they get. It's RUDE. It's TACKY. It's UNGRATEFUL. You didn't pay for it, so exactly what are you griping about? I as well as others took time out from other things to make sure there was something that could be used in both programs, and then we see ungrateful stuff like this.

If you see less people participating less year, just look up at your comment and think.

 

...agreed.

Yes, there are some I cannot use but that's just the way things are. Look at holiday gift giving, not every gift under the tree is for everyone in the family.  Wouldn't make much sense and the individual gifts wouldn't be as special to the recipients.

I'm actually pleased to see Bryce users get a little love this year.

Heck, one of the merchant resource freebies actually resulted in my purchasing a very useful utility which will really help with textureing.

Quote - > Quote - We continue to see products for V4 come through the submission process. Really it's the decision of the PA's to determine what to develop for. If the market demands more 4th generation content we will see more. I know some have switched to Genesis development because the process is different and in many cases faster. But as stated we see many develop for 4th gen, and why not, the content can be used for Genesis as well.

I wasn't referring to vendor products. Right now most of them are riding the Genesis introductory wave; how many of them will go back to V4 content along with Genesis and to what degree remains to be seen. They will go where the money is, I imagine. The market will determine how long V4 makes sense for vendors, I was referring to DAZ development of V4, such as bug fixes, updates, etc.

...just as with the last version of the core application, I feel any fixes to the Gen4 figures on Daz's part are pretty much low priority in light of Genesis/V5 being released. Fortunately some fixes (like joint bending) are coming from third party developers.  Hopefully this will spread to the other Gen4 models.

Would be nice if a third party developer could be allowed to fix the remaining memory issues in Studio3 but that is probably as unlikely as a blizzard in Tahiti.

Quote - I do know that some fixes were added late in the 3.x dev cycle. But even more memory management was done in 4.x.

One of the problems with a major release is that the Development team trys really hard to NOT break the SDK till the next major release. And I know some of these changes required a change to the SDK.So it's not always possible to dive deep into the core code to make the changes.

Does that make sense?

...I would think though that plugging memory leaks and solving the bloat issue would have little if anything to do with the SDK. If anything it would enhance the application's performance overall.

Granted, the 3.1.2.32 release does work better than previous versions however it still has some serious memory issues which are particularly glaring in the 32bit version due to the tighter RAM limits one has to work under.

Quote - We continue to see products for V4 come through the submission process. Really it's the decision of the PA's to determine what to develop for. If the market demands more 4th generation content we will see more. I know some have switched to Genesis development because the process is different and in many cases faster. But as stated we see many develop for 4th gen, and why not, the content can be used for Genesis as well.

...however when I go to the store and click on the "newest" filter, the majority of offerings I see are Genesis/V5 based.

If content creation for Genesis is indeed more attractive to PA's as I have heard here and elsewhere, then the Gen4 line's days (at least in the Daz Store) are truly numbered.

Since the release of Studio4/Genesis/V5 I have noticed my purchases from the Daz store has gone down significantly only because much of the new content that interests me is unusable without Studio4/Genesis.

However, I am only one customer and loss of my patronage will not break Daz's bottom line. So yes, the "vote with your wallet" idea is futile for there's always someone who was just introduced to 3D CG waiting to take your seat on the bus.

...ManleyStanely.  I have C8Pro I've been working with it off and on.  The only thing, like Studio 4, C8P really needs a 64 bit system to shine as it is just too hamstrung by the memory limitations in 32 bit.

For DazStudio, memory management has been an ongoing issue. Don't know if that has been resolved in 4A. 3A is where it was supposed to have happened (but didn't) and as Randall mentioned earlier, it is now a low priority even though we were promised it would be done before a new version of Studio was released. This alone would make S3A more stable, and thus useful, for those of us who cannot afford a hardware  upgrade right now.

Quote - kyoto_kid wrote:

Quote - If Daz is intent on killing Carrara and Bryce so that a "buffed-up" version of Studio could take their place, they should have just stopped development of the other two applications instead of string people along.

 

What in the world gave you the idea DAZ is going to kill Carrara and Bryce to put their features into DAZ Studio?

 

 

Coldrake

...the Infinito terrain generation plugin for one.

...renewed development of Hexagon (which has a direct two way bridge with Studio)

...no development of a 64 bit version of Bryce.

Quote - Plenty of people will still upgrade to the newer versions of Poser whether Genesis will work with it or not, and so will new users.

...I did so because they work on my system while Studio4 doesn't.

Quote - look, im not saying you shouldnt be careful on the net. your security procedures are none of my business.

All I am saying is that you MUST connect some computer to the net at some point to even get any of our stuff.... and that regardless of how or when you connect, if you buy something, it must be downloaded.

The "offline machine" point is moot.

No matter what method we choose to distribute our content, you will be connecting to DL it... after which you can check it, quarantine it, back it up or make pancakes for it! 

The only question is this. Will studio "know" which content has an update waiting online for you and tell you... giving you the option of a one button click download and install to the location indicated in your prefs*... or will you insist on the masochistic punishment of the current download and install process.

I will always vote for less work and more art time

 

*Hypothetical process. actual process may vary

...the standalone workstation is far from moot. Files and application updates can be downloaded to a net capable system (like my notebook) and transferred via flash drive. The only time an offline system would need to be connected is to initially register software after installation. Once that is done, there is no further need for a link to the Net.

It's not "masocshistic", it's being careful about protecting my investment.  I've already been hit with a virus that piggybacked on an auto-update, it was no fun to deal with. Hence I have disabled all auto update funtions.

Only if the software goes totally cloud based would a permanent net connection be requried.  When that is the only way to do 3D CG, then I am through. Even the best anti-virus/anti-intrusion suites/software are not 100% infallible, and as to leaving my personal work on someone else's server, I think not.  There has already been a major art theft situation on one popular gallery site so nothing connected to the net is "bulletproof".

Furthermore, being online diverts processor and memory resoruces away from more relevant CG tasks.

Only a standalone system is fully secure, as someone would have to break into my flat to gain access.

...and then they'd get to meet "Mr. Louisville" up close and personal.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Well, Daz is enterprising. You can't fault them for that. DS was developed for certain goals: Carrara for somewhat different goals. That is to Daz's credit. They acknowledged that users might have different objectives in creating 3D images. Good ON them!

Yes, that's true, but seems that DAZ is leaving all his other software covered with dust in a corner of the room and has only eyes for DS...

It's pretty common for a software house to buy up the competition to kill it through attrition.

...in some circles. that is known as a hostile takeover.

American Airlines parent AMR did that with their "acquisition" of TWA.

Delta did the same with their "acquisition" of Northwest Orient.

Southwest Air Group is in the process of doing so with their "acquisition" of AirTran.

...business is hell and it's the customer who usually ends up paying for it.

If Daz is intent on killing Carrara and Bryce so that a "buffed-up" version of Studio could take their place, they should have just stopped development of the other two applications instead of string people along.

...more and more I am looking towards moving to the Poser camp.

Carrara can use both Poser format, and with C8.5 daz's new goldenchild Genesis.

I can use all my runtimes; yes runtimes, in carrara as well as genesis/DSF in the DS4 "my library"

...that is what I like about Carrara as well (well sans all the Genesis stuff).

"hey, lets have some fun and confuse absolutly everyone and change the name of the studio content folder to my library"

...I would change the name of the Studio Content Folder to the "Junk Drawer" because that's how the installers treat it.

Don't blaim me for the spelling, blaim this forum not letting firefox check my speling. ;)

...what I do is first copy the full post to Word, run it through the spellchecker then send it to Notepad (to strip out the Word formatting) and then back to the forum message window.  Yeah it's a bit more work but with my "seek and destroy" style of typing it is a necessity.

Quote - > Quote - ...{Carrara works with poser format in a runtime, not studio format in a content folder}

Shall I go on?

Let them the time to manage Carrara as they want and then the Runtime folder is vanished from there too.
If you don't know, they're planning to add the DS Content Management to Carrara.

That's all said.

...great, so they going to force the CMS on Carrara (and no doubt Bryce) too? 

Maybe it's just me, but I find the Poser Runtime structure makes a lot more sense. 

...and I've been a Daz Studio user since I started in this.

...if it works, don't break it.

...and sometimes the opposite is true as well as those who don't like the way things are going, are reluctant to speak up for fear of being shouted down or being branded troubelmakers and whiners.

...the door swings both ways.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - ...so basically we are "written off" because those of us on limited budgets don't have the disposable income to buy a big ticket item like a new computer every couple of years.

Ok, let me get this right. You actually are upset that Daz will not cater to your OLD computer and to make this concession because you can't afford to buy a new computer??. You must be joking ;). I hope you don't mind if I say so, but that is beyond ridiculous. They're a business. They can't do that. And I completely understand that and I can't afford the newest version of either DS OR Poser.

Yep.

I still keep around (and use) a copy of D|S 3. If you scrounge enough online (for the free version, folks!), it is still out there for download. I'm almost willing to wager that you can get and keep a version 2.x out there as well. So far, aside from Genesis, it still works just fine for my uses.

Incidentally, even if you have an old machine, try getting more RAM for it - as much as the motherboard will stand. The stuff is (depending on type) cheap, plentiful, and easily-got. I paid a whopping $25 for 8GB (2x4GB) of DDR3 PC 10600 laptop RAM (from newegg.com), and so far it's run like a dream. Boosted the render times by around 15-20%, which is not a miracle, but definitely a visible improvement.

Page 11 so far, and I like how the thread has improved...

...The stats of my rig are in my sig below.  I have basically maxed out the RAM, am running the latest updates of OpenGL DirectX and system drivers. The MB only supports DDR2 so there are no further RAM upgrades available. As it is a notebook there really isn't much more I can do to improve the situation outside of buying an entirely new machine (which is way out of my budget).

I've been using 3A (32 bit) but due to memory managment issues that were never fixed (more critical in 32 bit as there is a finite amount of RAM that can be allocated to any application) before the relase of ver.4, it has been an exercise in frustration to say the very least.  I also have all my older installers (back to ver.1.5) however much of the content created after 3.0 was released will not work in them.

Quote - However I feel moving the free version to an online only status is kind of a step in the wrong direction.  Not everyone has a 24/7 high speed fibre optic network connection and many have restricted download limits and/or (such as myself) poor or slow connectivity.  Furthermore being online takes valuable processing and memory reources away.  For example I'm runninng FF right now and it is chewing up over a quarter gig of my RAM.

Quote - The online version will NOT be the only free version. There will also be a standalone free version.  It will have fewer features than the currently-free Standard version.

...I cannot rememeber the thread where I read about it on the Daz forums as it was a while ago. As I understand there is to be only Express (online - free), Standard (49.95$), Advanced (229.95$), and Pro (429.95$).  The Standard version is currently free but only for a limited time (probably year's end).

Quote - This isnt the doing of DAZ 3D. its the doing of PAs and mostly its Poser content compatibility that is the culprit.  Since DS4 came out, this is less of an issue because we check this more.

Quote - ...so why didn't this go through Q & A in the first place? As Daz only uses .exe installers they should have tested all .exes to make sure that the complete install package was properly set up before it hit the store. These "extraneous" folders make a real mess of the Studio content tree and navigating it a chore.  This is why I am in favour of .zip files for even though it is more work on my part to install content, at least I can have complete control over where everything goes.

Quote - I think Randall is mistaken here -- the screenshots Kyoto Kid posted look to me like incorrect content folders (or content installed to places that aren't content folders), rather than things that slipped through QA.

...there's nothing loadable in these folders when I open them, I just get a blank selection palette.  I don't change any paths when installing content so I have no idea why these folders end up here other than something wrong with the install.exe.

Quote - This is a small market there is no denying it. We all know it.  Its one of our main initiatives at DAZ 3D to attract new users  to this community and create new 3D "addicts" like us. We have been accused and attacked for "abandoning" the Poser users, we have no intention of doing that, which is why I am here, but NOBODY should have any issue whatsoever with us trying to bring in fresh blood.  Are you saying that you wouldn’t give almost anything to reach 100,000 more customers... even if they were complete novices? Adapting to a position where we can appeal to a complete novice AND a seasoned veteran is the goal and we believe it can be done

...I have nothing against attracting new customers to Daz. Over the years since I became involved in 3D CG, I have suggested to many who were interested to fo to the Daz3D site, DL the (then) free version and one of the free content packages (first the 3D Bridge Pack then Anime Starfighter bundle) to get a feel for the programme. This is something I still applaud Daz for as the free version was the full blown base programme (not some "emasculated" 30 day trial) which let you not only render a scene but save the final result with no annoying watermarks or size restrictions.  

However I feel moving the free version to an online only status is kind of a step in the wrong direction.  Not everyone has a 24/7 high speed fibre optic network connection and many have restricted download limits and/or (such as myself) poor or slow connectivity.  Furthermore being online takes valuable processing and memory reources away.  For example I'm runninng FF right now and it is chewing up over a quarter gig of my RAM.

When I chose DazStudio four years ago it was because the core application was free, no strings attached, no cost to join. I didn't need a network connection to use it or under a deadline of some imposed expiration date so I could work at my own speed when and where I pleased.  I would never have explored it's possibilities If I had to base the decision on a hamstrung demo, pony up hard earned cash first, or was required to be connected to the net (as back then I could only do so at a public "hotspot") to do so.

That said, my one concern is that attracting new people into the fold shouldn't be done so at the expense of those who have been on board for years and cannot or choose not to upgrade to the "latest and greatest".  There is an RPG publisher who did that six years ago (not GDW or WotC), who in so doing alienated many of the system's long time customers and supporters (myself for one) by totally gutting the game's mechanics and setting and making it play more like a "Pen and Paper" version of an MMO.  Granted, we were not prevented from playing the older version because we actually "owned" the books and they didn't require expensive computer hardware to use. When an inconsistency or vagueness in the rules arose, we could simply "debug" it through what is known as "house-ruling" which didn't violate copyright (and was actually encouraged by the game designers) as long as we didn't republish the information for public sale. Unfortunately this does not work the same way with graphics software because we only own the licence to the use the programme, are bound by the EULA, and access to the application's source code (along with programming expertise) is required to make any fixes.  Hence we are dependent on the company's development team to do the "houseruling" for us.

Since ver.4 seems to be a break from previous versions of the application, making the necessary long awaited fixes to Studio3/3A does not require retooling or "rolling back" anything. It does not threaten sales of ver.4 for this is now the "SOTA" version of the application that newcomers to Daz will see and most likely buy.

Quote - These are a collection of screenshots from my Studio "Runtime" folder content tree in S3A.  All of the blue highlighted selections are non-content folders (e.g. contain nothing that can be loaded into a scene) which are clearly the result of Daz installers as can be seen from the folder names.  When I install content from Zip files, I do so manually by first extracting to a temp. folder and then moving the individual component folders (Geometries, Characters, Poses, etc.) into their proper locations.  Templates, Readmes & the like go into separate folders outside of the Studio application.

Content "Data" folders, while important for the application, should not be visible anywhere in the Content tab.

This is just downright sloppy programming and I'm not even a programmer.

Quote - This isnt the doing of DAZ 3D. its the doing of PAs and mostly its Poser content compatibility that is the culprit.  Since DS4 came out, this is less of an issue because we check this more.

...so why didn't this go through Q & A in the first place? As Daz only uses .exe installers they should have tested all .exes to make sure that the complete install package was properly set up before it hit the store. These "extraneous" folders make a real mess of the Studio content tree and navigating it a chore.  This is why I am in favour of .zip files for even though it is more work on my part to install content, at least I can have complete control over where everything goes. ...and with that in mind...

Quote - Regarding zips, I think we should keep in mind that 24 'voters' represents maybe about 0.003% of the DAZ customer base, if it reaches 100,000 mark. DAZ needs to do whatever it thinks is best for the majority.

Having said the above I would also personally prefer ZIP files. I would be happy with an executable which requires that I actively accept the EULA, and if I accept the EULA the executable then creates a ZIP file in the same directory.

...Now that would be a good idea as it would allow those of us who design our own runtime structures greater flexibility and would eliminate the situation I mentioned above.  it could be implemented as an option with a check box after the EULA is accepted.  If one chooses the .zip file option, then the .exe bypasses the install process and goes directly to the "finish" page.  Elegant.