I have not read through the entire thread yet so a lot of this may have already been said and I am sure it is not in continuity of what is currently being discussed.  I do apologize for that, but I stopped reading around page 10 or so.  But, this thread was started because DAZ wants feedback and for us to get things clarified and any time I post over at the DAZ 3D forum, my comments get deleted so I'm going to try here and see what happens (though I have little hope I will be heard as I have been ignored on DAZ's official facebook page as well).

Now, let me start out by saying that I have more then once seen Genesis and DS 4 compared to BluRay. Which is fine, but I would point out that you can still buy DVDs and DVD players. Not just that, but movies that come out now come in DVD, BluRay, and DVD/BluRay combo. Some independent releases even still only come out on DVD with no high def option. In truth I wish the whole Genesis/DS 4 thing was like BluRay because that would mean that every product that comes out would have a Poser version (probably for V4), a DS version (probably a Genesis version) and an option to get both. That would be absolutely fantastic and a win for everyone. Or, as another option, make the DSF format less closed so that items for Genesis could be converted to V4 or other figures usable in Poser through XDresser or something similar. So, yes, I tend to think that DAZ thought they were Sony (referencing the HD DVD vs BluRay "war" here) but it turns out they do not have that much power. Also, I love that so many people from DAZ (staff, PAs and forum people) are so quick to say that if we want Genesis to work in Poser we need to talk to SM. When you buy a PC game and it doesn't work with your system, do you complain to the company that made the computer or the company that made the game? Or, using the BluRay/DVD example again, if a movie comes out in DVD only, but you want a BluRay version do you contact the maker of your BluRay player to tell the studio to release the movie in BluRay? Just something to think about.

Speaking of PAs, I do wish there was some way for DAZ to moderate their trolling in other forums. I mean why do they pop in here on Renderosity or RuntimeDNA in droves to defend DAZ or DS at times saying such mean things and all by personally attacking people when they could just simply ignore it? To use a quote "we only feel the need to defend against things we fear might be true". Not to mention, it's just not good business for them or for DAZ. There are several PAs I will not longer buy from due to their actions/responses in the forums.

Moving on, I want to point out, that as someone who is professionally trained in illustration, modeling, animation, graphic design and video, I do not understand this need to have all figures in one figure. I just don't. I can see potential from a content creator standpoint as it is, in theory, quicker and easier (though from what I have seen I do not know that this is the case). I can also see how for some who want to make things quickly and easily as opposed to correctly that it is appealing, but as someone who tends to be a perfectionist and spends hours upon hours making everything just right in every scene I do (and that is before rendering anything), I just don't see the point. I would rather have individual figues with their own unique traits. I was upset about the Gen 4 unimesh at first as well, but I do see the benefit in having a base female and base male to build from now. I do not see why every gender, age, and critter imaginable needs to be put into one figure though. I honestly don't. To me, it's like those all-in-one printer, copier, fax monstrousities that are out now. They do all these things acceptably, but excel at none. I would rather excel at one thing then do a lot of thing poorly.

So, having said that, let me say that I am interested in knowing what market DAZ is heading towards with their new software and innovations. I think it's safe to assume since the store for them seems to have disappeared that they have found it is not feasible to cater to the indie gaming crowd as they want everything for free or for cheap so bulk licensing is not something they are interested in. They wanted to use the free version of V4 freely in their games which is just not feasible for many, many reasons, but most don't understand that and I'm not going to go into it. But anyway, the reason I bring it up at all is because so many people talk about bringing DAZ up to "industry standard" and I am curious as to which industry they are going after. Do they honestly assume that high end illustrators and animators use figures like Genesis? In gaming they do to conserve resources in the way I see DAZ doing so, but not in animation and illustration. Have they ever seen a step by step of how these things are done?

In all honesty, the new direction DAZ is taking scares me. Why? Because with the new CEO coming from a craft gadget background, I worry that DAZ is going to cater more and more to "three click art hobbyists" as I call them. Those people who load in everything from presets, click render and BAM! Image complete. No custom lights, no adjustments or custom textures, just click, click, click, ART! The fact that so many textures at DAZ now have painted on wrinkles, highlights and shadows which means they look odd in different light settings only lends creedance to this in my mind. The fact that the DSF file format is so closed that in order to get things to work in other programs I would have to actually open up DS and export things out of it to make adjustments instead of being trusted with an object and texture files makes me think that as well. It also makes me think that DAZ is going the way of so many software companies whose software I will not use because in order to stop piracy hey punish the ones who obtain things legally. The talk of a download manager like Steam being used for downloads in the future only confirms this. App store type tech works great for cellphones and tablets, but not for computer games or content. I absolutely hate using Steam or Origin and I have had to reformat entire machines due to Steam messing them up so much!

So let's talk about Genesis. Interesting idea, but the autofit needs a lot of work. I mean have you seen the odd, jaggy bumps it puts in clothing when it converts things to fit (look at the back waist band of pants for an example)? I don't know if it's the Sub-D or what, but it looks awful. Not to mention the breasts area on women. I have seen models in stores where the shirt clinges to every bit of the breasts in a horribly unnatural way and thought "how horrible, I am glad that DAZ has more quality control then that" but I look at these autoconverted and autofitted things with mangled and warped geometry that follows the lines of the body creating odd bumps and clothing that is so tight it looks painted on when it's should be loose and I cringe. I mean how often when you see a women in a tank top do the straps bulge out on the collarbone like in so many Genesis renders? Or see fabric so tight that is actually clinges to the sternum between the breasts? If you are striving for reality, then this type of things needs to be fixed pronto. As do the proportion and anatomy issues that come up. Like how it's obvious that most of the muscles where modeled for a male figure as the hips and abdominals do not look feminine when adding in to the female figures. They look transgendered rather then female. I have brought this up numerous times and been told that 1) I just don't understand the program or 2) I just don't understand anatomy. The first may be true, but after 6 years of art classes including figure drawing and anatomy, I can tell the second one is not. Males and females are different in the way their bodies look, bend and move. They just are and it is noticable in Genesis that the muscle groups and such are all based on men. This is not just my opinion. I have shown renders from DAZ products of V5 and the Genesis female that are actual product promos used on the DAZ site to friends and coworkers and have heard the "she looks transgendered" be mentioned without my prompting it. So, you tell me if it's a problem or not?

The weight mapping is good and I applaud both DAZ and SM for finally adding this. I find it amusing that both companies chose to use their own types of weight mapping as opposed to something that would work in both programs, but not unexpected.

And finally, DAZ with DS 4 and Genesis has, whether it was their intent or not, made the "my progam is better then yours" disagreement that has been going on for years worse and by some extension SM has, too. I just hope that DAZ's action with the release of DS 4 and Genesis has not soured too many Poser users to Genesis so much that when they have a version of some sort that will work in Poser, Poser users won't even want to use it. I know that it's going to take a lot of convincing for me for onr to even try Genesis in Poser as I'd rather not be bothered with the whole thing and find alternative means since DAZ's actions and responses to me have only made me think they don't want my business anyway. Plus there is the whole thing about DAZ Studio not working well on my machine because I refuse to use NVidia graphics (ATI all the way!) because of their overclocking and having horrible experiences with the company. So, I can't even use it as an exporter on my main work computer at this point.

Anyway, just my 2 cents. My apologies if I have offended anyone, but honestly, having gotten all of this out in the open for others to see has been cathartic for me....

Best to all!