@ Nevertrumper, do you see me mention other software or figures for other software, no I haven't, I was trying to explain the difference between a Poser figure and a DS4 figure for people that have no idea there is a difference. Trust me most of the community (both sides) have no clue, all they see is the shape and that they can dress them up.

So most have no idea of how big a headache it is to convert content made for the Poser version of a figure, into something the DS version can use.

They also have no idea that Poser content doesn't work as is in DS4, it all has to be redesigned by the importer into a basic version of Genesis, that is why I refer to it as the Genesis system. The problem is Poser content converts badly, they bend like a wet noodle, most morph ERC won't work especially if it's setup to avoid Cross Talk, V4's magnets don't work, and you can't INJect morphs. So extra coding was added to make it "appear" that it all still works the same, it doesn't, but as most users couldn't find their own backside with both hands, it does what is needed.

@ unrealblue, last time I had a character morph come with an OBJ was probably Posette. Dawn 1 didn't have INJection channels and I'm betting Dawn 2 doesn't either, DS needs channels in the Poser figure otherwise you can't use INJ/REM PZ2's, and PMDs only load when called from a CR2, so if a DS user doesn't have a copy of at least P9 then they have a headache getting an OBJ of the morph to use on the DS version of Dawn 2.

It can still be done, but you need to know your way around the inside of a CR2, as you will need to create a "loader" CR2, one that loads the figure, any PMD's as well as add in every valueParm and targetGeom channel the morph has. All that just to get the morph into the Poser version in DS, just so you can export an OBJ to use on the DS version.

Now I've lost count how many "loaders" I've made since my Poser 4 days, so I have the knowledge and skills to do that, there aren't many that can say the same, especially not on the DS side of the fence.

Oh and btw I also explained how to do this over on the old Hivewire site (before they got hacked) for Dawn 1.

What makes her stand apart from the other figures you mention is that she is available for both Poser and DS and thus, in theory, it would be easier to make supporting items for her that serve both worlds. Rigging systems may be different but a geometry facet is a geometry facet, a morph delta is a morph delta and a texture map is a texture map. The other differences between Poser and DS systems are mere  administration and should be open to automatic conversion. 

Want a bet

In Poser a figure is a skeleton made from a collection of bones, the mesh is split into a collection of props, each prop parented to the appropriate bone (LThigh prop to LThigh bone, Head prop to Head bone etc), move a bone and the prop moves with it, joint parameters are really only there to smooth the area where the props meet. Now morph's need direct access to the mesh to work, so in Poser that means a FBM is actually a collection of PBM's and are located on the bone (targetGeom) with the ERC linking them to a valueParm in the BODY.

In DS4 a figure is a fully welded mesh and a skeleton made from a collection of bones, the root node of the skeleton is parented to the mesh, so move the mesh and the skeleton moves with it, move a bone and nothing happens to the mesh, that's what the WM's are for. Now because the mesh is basically the root node of a figure it means all morphs and pose controls have to be located there as well, so in DS4 every morph is an FBM wether it moves one vertex or every vertex.

That is what I refer to as the Genesis system and it's the only system DS4 has, so if it comes through an import plugin then it has to be converted to that system, and yes that includes Poser content.

I know from personal experience that getting a Poser only morph into the DS4 version of Dawn 1 was a lot of work, I have the knowledge and skills to do it, but a good 99% of the DS user base doesn't, especially if they don't have a copy of P9+.

randym77 posted at 12:43 AM Sun, 29 September 2024 - #4489845

I asked about the JCMs, and Hivewire has responded. Apparently that's how it's intended to work.

"Yes zero figure turns off the JCMs and all morphs. Restore figure will leave the JCMs on."

I don't get it. Maybe it's the DS way of doing things or something, but I don't understand the benefits of doing it that way in Poser.

Zeroing a figure has always been a dumb thing to do in Poser as well as Studio, when you zero the figure you also zero the rigging, which means the figure now has a high chance of suffering gimbal lock, restoring puts the figure back into it's memorized state which will avoid gimbal lock.

Main issue is that DAZ have a strict "no attacks" policy on the forums.

The company, it's staff, the forum staff, the content creaters and even the user base is covered by this.

So you can't heavilly crit them, slag them off, make them look bad, or even make them look stupid.

Before you ask, yep I've had thousands of posts deleted over there, and for all of the above, as a result I'm probably going to be one of a small group, who are "Pre Moderated" on a permanent basis.

Should only need "Fit To" as parenting conformers was only done to help with applying hierachical presets after the launch of G8.

Just checked one of my old notebooks and this one is in there.

When saving conforming items in DS4 you want the figure in the scene and the item "Fitted to" the figure, that way when you use "Figure/Prop Asset" to save it you get a wearable preset. When you don't have the figure in the scene or the item fitted to it then DS creates a subset preset, which has all of the auto conforming code missing, add in the lack of metadata and even the CMS can't act as backup and force the "fit to".

Fixing this will require some recoding of the DUF files, however they can be used as they are, right click the item in the scene tab or in the viewport and select "Fit (item name) To" and chose the figure.

I don't have anything in my notes about "prefered base" so I hope autofit doesn't start when you "Fit To".

TBH I'm surprised it took this long to do anything to me, in reality I should have been banned years ago, in the 12 or so years since they moved to that forum software, I've had thousands of posts deleted. I have 1800 posts to my name over there, but I'm sure my actual count is somewhere between 5K and 6K

mouser posted at 7:57 PM Wed, 22 May 2024 - #4485165

I have found myself back here at the Renderosity forums as Daz3d forums are taking weeks to clear my replies on their forums.

Or they are simply deleting them altogether, they don't seem to be as tolerant of critic these days.

Break the forum tos to many times and you get put on "pre-moderation", this means your posts all go into a queue to be checked by the forum staff before it get's allowed onto the forums, so basically if your post hasn't shown up after 12 hours it probably never will.

I've been calling content creators "lazy" and "stupid" for the half assed crap they've been doing lately, and that's what "finally" got me on the list.

Studio has never been able to handle Alpha channels directly, with DS3 it meant using the Layer Image Editor (LIE) or build a custom shader with the ShaderMixer.

With DS4 you have the ShaderMixer for 3Delight but not with Iray, none of the MDL bricks give access to the Alpha channel, you have LIE as well, and an "Image Editor" built into the Surface tab that can force an Alpha to be used.

You do know that g8.1 and G9 use 100% facial rigging for expressions.

In DS4 if you have a Genesis figure in the scene and selected, and you try and load a character preset an options box will open, load a new figure or apply to selected figure, second option will replace the selected figure with what's in the preset.

DS4 got a few changes when G8 was released, one of these was to the Character Preset system, before G8 all you had was "Shapes" and "Materials", now there is a "Post Load" system in there as well. This allows you to specify which geo-graft(s) to load with the character.

Now as we are talking Rawn's creatures, I'm guessing that RAW is a character preset that you load when you don't have the Genesis figure in your scene or don't have it selected, and the CHR is a character preset you use to replace the selected figure in your scene, or it could be the other way around, I don't have any of them so I can't be sure without access to the files.

It was explained over at DAZ many years ago, probably before this thread was even made.

It's part their location (Utah), but it's mostly to do with credit card payment systems, CC companies charge a 2.5% surcharge on every transaction, some sites will swallow that charge, while others pad the bill to cover it, but that is for "PG13" classed sites. With more adult orientated sites (non sexual) that surcharge gets increased by quite a bit, and with sexual sites some CC companies will refuse the transaction, which is why most of them use "middle man" companies like CCBill for payments.

So DAZ decided to stay PG13 to avoid all of that.

That was what DAZ Connect was originally meant to do, each account has it's own ID and the content downloaded in DS was encrypted to that account, as a result nobody else could use that content without logging into that account.

But the community shot it down in flames (DRM), it's still there, just not used by the majority.

Nothing hard about making clones, I've been doing it since DS4.0, you just need a functioning brain and to be willing to use it.

I'm also the person that did the first V4 to Dawn clone and showed it off over at Hivewire, but as we weren't allowed to distibute DAZ shapes, it meant I couldn't give it to anyone, so I created a tutorial over at Hivewire on how to do it, even included a pose to make it easier for everyone else.

3doutlaw copied it (with my permission), which was probably just as well as Hivewire got hacked and lost everything on the forums.

Poser 4 and Poser Pro Pack used a "simple" general purpose shader on every surface, with Poser 5 and newer versions you have the Material Room, this means that every surface now has a bespoke shader designed specificly for that surface.

Since P5 every surface has the general purpose shader settings as well as the Material Room settings, MT5, MC6, PZ2, CR2, PP2 and even PZ3.

DS can only read and convert the settings in that P4/PP general purpose shader, it doesn't even try to read the Material Room settings, and as time has gone by fewer and fewer content makers put anything in the general purpose shader, as a result most non DAZ Poser content just loads white in DS.

The Material Room does a lot of procedural settings (aka no textures) and there is no way to recreate those in the crappy general purpose shaders DAZ provides with DS, you need the Shader Mixer for those, and a good 95% of the user base is terrified of it.