yeah thanks for the link Karen it works, minus a few things I gotta figure out like smoothing and such.. What about textures though.. I know for max I am going to have to UUV map the wings or whatever, so am I going to have to uvvunwrap and then redo the whole texture, or is there a way to import the mapping coords, anyone know?

I did e-mail Daz about it still no reply.. Hmm if I try to reload it into poser I get an error saying Error in Plugin 'FF3ds.arp' perhaps that is the 3ds file exporter and importer.. But then again if it was that, then how would it only give me those errors with vicky exported to 3ds and not any other poser model???.. confused..