I agree with you Raindroptheelf. That said, my comment still holds about Renderosity. I've been around here for over twenty years and you are more likely to get a response from one of the small clique of apologists Renderosity likes to hide behind, with something along the lines of shut up and stop rocking the boat. What you will never get is a straight answer from Renderosity about why they make the decisions they make. Myself, although I have a couple of must-have vendors here (and I note here that other vendors have already moved out) I took the same decision others have done, cancelled my wishlist and now make my purchases elsewhere.

The answer is Renderosity moved the goalposts and dropped Render Rewards for purchasers unless they are Prime members. I've got 97 useless points sitting there and guess what? Rendo won't do anything about it because it doesn't comply with their corporate mind think. I'm looking forward to the next share statement to see how much this sneaky little move has cost them in lost sales!

So I get literally NO points for buying non-prime products - how is that even fair?

Good move Rendo. Cut out the ordinary buyer from Reward Points which was the reason for introducing them in the first place. With the remaining points I have left now useless and Daz holding frequent sales, guess who gets my hard-earned cash now!

I have to wonder if Daz are familiar with the term 'useful idiots' coined by Vladimir Lenin. I had rather hoped that with G8.1 they'd realised that steady development of the existing figure, especially after the debacle which was the launch of DS4.20. Sadly not. They simply move the goalposts again and sit back as the said 'useful idiots fall over themselves throwing money at them in their urge to own the latest 'thing'. Not this time Daz. This guy is sitting back in the expectation of discovering that the Daz hype isn't working as is becoming apparant going on the number of people saying, "No, thank you" on the various forums, no matter how much the Guru is pushing the hype for all its worth on YouTube. He's taken his thirty pieces of silver. Myself, and seemingly many others, have not. My silver is staying right where in belongs in this instance, in my wallet

OK! Found Philosophers Egg, Thanks for your help!

Any chance of a link to P. Egg for those small dog breeds. I would love to add them and the fox to my collection.

OK! Problem solved! Re-downloaded the upgrade and now have Poser 11.3.740. The only problem is Malwarebytes (if you are running it) raising a 'false flag' re the support files as mentioned earlier. The simple solution is to click the right-facing arrow to the right of the notice and click 'open' on the pop-up which runs the download as normal.

Downloaded the 11.3 upgrade and now I have Poser 11.2.329???

Rhia474 posted at 10:46PM Sat, 02 November 2019 - #4368936

Poser 11, Poser Pro 11 and Poser 2014 Game Dev updates to Poser 11.2 were free.

https://www.renderosity.com/the-day-has-come-poser-pro-11-2-update-has-been-released-cms-21781

Please try to remain factually correct. If you had those 3 versions, it cost nothing to update--unless of course, you chose to pay. If you updated from an earlier version, it was your choice to upgrade, and $99 was a significantly reduced price compared to what it cost me when Poser 11 Pro came out originally and I upgraded my Poser 2014.

If you have Poser 2014 Game Dev, Poser 11, and Poser Pro 11, this update will convert your Poser to Poser Pro 11.2 at no additional cost.

If you have Poser 10 or below you are not required to update, but you can upgrade for $99.

Curiouser and curiouser! I’m glad you have decided to opt for factual correctness Rhia474 because what you have effectively told us is that Renderosity have taken payment for something people didn’t need to pay for! Let’s have a look at some facts:

After the buyout Renderosity released an offer to upgrade to Poser Pro 11 for $99 or purchase it for $199 if they didn’t already own any version of Poser. Nowhere in that offer did it state that Poser 11 would be upgraded free, although I’m sure that if it did you would be happy to point out the relevant statement saying that it did. In fact Poser 11 was not actually included in that initial upgrade offer. The result of queries from users with regards to Poser 11 lead Renderosity to change that initial offer of upgrade very quickly to include Poser 11 at the same price of $99. Again at no point in that offer did Renderosity point out that it was unnecessary for users to actually pay for that upgrade and again, I and many others would be grateful if you would refer us to the relevant statement in that upgrade offer! Sometime after that Renderosity released an update to change the terms of their license and corrects some minor bugs. This was the update resulting in Poser Pro 11.2. As this was well after the fact of the initial upgrades which I and many others paid for I am sure that they will be as surprised as myself to learn that we ‘volunteered’ to pay for something we didn’t need to and that Renderosity have knowingly taken payment for something we didn’t need to pay for! If that is indeed the case Renderosity have more questions to answer than what increasingly appears to be their ‘subscription by stealth’ licensing system. In all honesty, I believe you should think very carefully before appointing yourself as the unofficial spokesman for the people who should be addressing this matter and are steadfastly avoiding doing so. Meanwhile, I shall be be talking to my lawyers again about recovering the money I paid for something I didn’t need to or at least, trying to get an answer as to why Renderosity took payment for something they neglected to inform us was not actually necessary!

OK! Sit back and think for a while. There's no problem with the updates, and incidentally A_Sunbeam, those who previously had Poser 11 did NOT get a free update to Poser Pro, myself included. Poser 11 users had to purchase an upgrade at $99 after which the upgrade to Poser Pro 11.2 was free as it was for everyone else.

3DCritter: Yes, you had a permanent license from SM, albeit one which required you to 'phone-home' every month which was a result of SM's ill-fated attempt to move Poser onto a subscription basis, and I'm sure you remember the controversy that caused, and incidentally started the downhill slide for Poser as far as SM were concerned. Enter Renderosity and suddenly things are looking much brighter. Until, that is you realise that their new license system is even worse than the old one because now, instead of having to contact the server to re-activate your license you are being told to contact the server to renew your lease three times a month in addition to which, if statements on the Daz forum are to be believed, Renderosity have removed the permanent license feature. Now I'm taking statements like that with a pinch of salt for now, but I have to ask, why did I have to read that on the Daz forum and not here? The simple answer is because no one with any authority here is talking, and supplying everyone with the information we need to clear the matter up. Instead we being told to 'show some patience' because they are all excited about how hunky-dory Poser 12's going to be. Do you honestly think thats true when no one is willing to explain why they have imposed a license regime which is even worse than the one which caused so much trouble in the first place? After all, unless there is a great seachange in Renderosity's thinking thats exactly the same license they'll impose on Poser 12. Thats what people are worried about. The rest of it is just hot air from those who think their opinions count more the the rest!

Quick edit: That last line should read, The only people who can address that are Bondware and its well past time they stepped up to the plate and addressed the legitimate concerns of the people they have so far chosen to ignore! Rant over! Respect!

Unfortunately, there seems to be a time limit on editing which I appear to have exceeded. Apologies!

Rhia474 posted at 7:34PM Sat, 26 October 2019 - #4368376

Just a thought: has it occurred to anyone that the phone home feature is maybe taking time to detangle from the code? I am not a programmer, but I know what a mess Poser's code is with the owner changes, 3rd party room additions etc. maybe 4 months since the acquisition was not enough time to get it out in a manner that does not damage something else?

I would, though, agree on the communications lacking. I requested a few times that for heaven's sake at least add 'new home of Poser' to their main page so people don't see nothing but DAZ content on the fist landing here. I was assured something is being worked on, but official communication about such things would be nice, especially if it was done in a way that reaches a lot of people.

I have seen that put forward as a possible reason elsewhere Rhia474. I'm not a programmer either so I leave that to the people who are. However, that said does a presumably experienced coder find it so difficult to trace the 'guilty' code? Now admittedly, many people who have had firsthand experience of IT bods would instantly reply in the affirmative, but, joking aside, it doesn't explain why Bondware has been able to take that code and change it from SM's monthly 'phone-home' informing the user that they needed to reactivate their license to a thrice-monthly requirement to 'phone-home' to avoid losing their lease. Note that word 'lease'. That's one of the points which was emphasized by my lawyer friend. It could be argued that a simple continuation of SM's monthly activation requirement could have been allowed under the 'custom and practice' rules giving Bondware time to install their own system. However, what has happened is that Bondware has changed the rules. More importantly, they have changed them after the fact. In brief, we purchased Poser (from Bondware) on the basis that we were buying a permanent license. SM's backdoor introduction of the monthly activation notwithstanding. Now we are being told that unless we 'phone-home' every nine days or so we will lose our lease. The actual wording is 'renew your lease'. The fact that it appears on a pop-up window warning you to phone-home constitutes a statement of policy (implied) because it is a notification from the owners, Bondware and that makes it a statement of intent by Bondware. The implication is clear. Bondware has either changed the rules without the advanced notification they are required to give with regards to purchase and the form that purchase will take regarding terms and conditions after the purchase has been made (without consent) or somewhere along the way some coder has reached a point where they have decided, "that'll do". (The equivalent of an electrician poking the wires with his finger to find out which is the live one!) and Bondware has simply decided to run with it. That is just storing up a whole lot of trouble for the future and its something which is potentially liable to turn on its owners big time. Not exactly good business practice from a company who appears to want to reverse Posers fortunes and tun it into a viable and successful part of the 3D community. Remember also that this is with regard to a program which has already experienced a whole load of grief due to the previous owners ill-fated handling and their underestimation of the great regard with which Poser owners view it! That's why I view Bondwares blanket silence on the matter as something to deeply regret. As things stand, that silence is speaking volumes and creates a vacuum which is being filled with speculation and no small amount of misinformation together with the sort of glib answers like 'the answer to that is above my pay grade' and 'maybe it will be different in the next version of Poser!' which serve no purpose other than to further exacerbate an already fraught situation. The only people who can address that are Bondware and its well past time they stepped up to the plate of the many people whose concerns they have so far chosen to ignore! Rant over! Respect!

Hi Rhia474. Apologies if I came across as acerbic but to be honest I have had previous experience of our friend's snide one-liners designed to stifle debate. In fact, he is one of the reasons I have stopped posting over at Hivewire. I would be more than happy to take part in any debate conducted in a reasonable manner by all parties but I certainly don't intend to tolerate being driven away from one forum only to put up with the same stupid comments from one of the people responsible for that decision. As to your other point, I would like to make my position clear on Poser and its new owner in the hope that no one will be able to further misinterpret my concerns which are the actions Bondware have taken re the handling of the licencing issues. When Poser was purchased by Bondware I, like many others was delighted that we, at last, had an owner capable of reviving its fortunes and taking the program forward as it deserves. I still believe that this was a good move for all concerned, buyers and owners alike. However, that purchase came with impediments in the form of SM's unfortunate decision to impose its 'phone-home' feature which I believe was originally applied with the intention of putting certain versions of Poser on a subscription-only basis. That feature has been perpetuated and inherited by Bondware. Not an ideal situation and clearly a feature which is detested by many as countless posts here can attest both long before and after Bondwares purchase. That situation is further exacerbated when that feature is not only retained but extended from approximately once a month to every nine days with the added threat of purchasers losing access to the program they have purchased if they do not comply. I would remind you that we are talking about a permanent license here and that has a meaning in legal terms, in fact, at some point in the future could result in a legal challenge being mounted. (I should insert at this point that this is something I have verified with my lawyers, not with the intention of doing so but as a hypothetical test in order to be sure of my facts!). That's certainly not an ideal given that Poser has taken a considerable battering from various people, including to my regret, people within the Poser community itself. I am certain that in the hands of Bondware Poser does/could have a better future than the recent past would otherwise indicate. However, It does not help Posers cause when Bondware remain silent in response to so many queries about a feature which has caused such contention in the past and is leading to a build-up of anger in the present. As you rightly point out, Bondware has been in ownership for four months now so isn't that plenty of time not only to respond to the licensing problems or even acknowledge that a lot of people have justifiable concerns about it? In my opinion, I think it is for the simple reason that ignoring it causes unnecessary problems which could be easily solved with a little more openness on Bondwares behalf. Poser does not need that sort of bad publicity and as I stated before, the people they are alienating now are the same people they will be expecting to pay out for the next version of Poser. So yes, that is my opinion and I am quite willing to debate it openly and reasonably. Just don't expect me to shut up just because someone decides a snide one-liner constitutes a reasoned response! Respect!

Surprise, surprise! A response from EClark1894. Perhaps then, in your infinite wisdom, you would like to direct us to the relevant posts in which Jenn Blake, or indeed, anyone from Bondware has addressed the many queries from users about not only the continuation of SM's detested 'phone-home' but has, in fact, increased the frequency to every nine days or so. I was going to follow that with, I await your reply with bated breath but I won't. What I will say is that this is Renderosity which has a much larger membership than Hivewire where this sort of snide remark (as usual never backed up by any evidence to the contrary) from you perhaps has more effect. In fact, that's why I blocked you over at Hivewire (and now, here!). As others have said elsewhere, and with which I agree (In a thread incidentally which you started https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2938932) Yes, you do supply some very useful information which is to be applauded. Unfortunately, you also have a tendency to let your ego lead you into believing that yours is the only opinion that counts. That has also been pointed out by other people elsewhere so please accept the fact that yours is just one of many opinions and try and refrain from making silly little remarks without at least trying to back them up with facts. That just makes you a troll.

I would point out to everyone that I have the greatest respect for the forum at Hivewire and Hivewire in particular. Chris and Lisa do a great job over there and I would advise anyone interested to visit