BlueLotus7, I find your attitude amazing. Bercause I disagree with you and express an opinion about the quality of work on display I'm told by you to "go away" now I call that rude - it would be a strange world if every critic who disliked anything was immediately dismissed as not worthy of having an opinion :) Anybody who places their work on public display leaves it open to critique. I don't have to like it and I'm not duty bound to say how wonderful stuff is when quite frankly it's not. Of course, I was a beginner and of course I'm still learning - I find that teaching others helps me understand the software I'm using a lot better and anybody who knows me will tell you that I am more than willing to provide time and support to anybody who asks (another of your rash and incredibly innacurate assumptions shot down in flames). I wasn't rude I just made an observation. I didn't insult (or name) anybody. I made the point (which numerous people have agreed with by private message) that the genre of "work" that is classed as art is somewhat dubious and the quality for the most part is awful. Many of the images are hackneyed, corny pastiches of stuff that wouldn't have looked out of place on a 1970's Athena poster. Andy

It wasn't me who started on the personal attacks - i criticised the genre of work which has led to the latest change in rules. There's nothing really to be helpful about, the rules have been changed and it's a case of live with it or leave. I was adding fuel to the fir4e by saying that in my opinion the decision was 100% justified and neccessary As to posting links to porn sites that just helps the moderators justify their decisions - if people can't behave unsupervised and realise where good taste ends then they need to be told. Andy

to mimezine and bluelotus7. your ignorance amazes me. Because I have no homepage or gallery here you decide that it is OK to assume that I know nothing and start flaming :) Perhaps a quick search of google would point you in the right direction? Perhaps if you read Computer Arts Magazine you would know who I was? Perhaps if you read 3D World Magazine you'd know who I was? Perhaps if you got your heads out of your own ***** and realised that renderosity was just a small corner of the 3D world you'd know who I was :) Just for your information and because you are obviously too idle too look I'll tell you - I've been involved with 3D graphics/art for nearly 20 years now since the days of the Amiga . I started off in 3D working with a program called Silver (later to be called Imagine) then moved on to early versions of Lightwave and 3D Studio MAX before "settling" on using trueSpace (which at the time was called simply Caligari)until a couple of years ago I switched to using Cinema 4D. Throughout my time as a 3D artist I have been involved in the beta testing and development of various 3D applications. I make a living out of 3D: as a modeller for numerous clients including the games company Namco (check out who did most of the promo artwork for Street Racing Syndicate :))and several major architects and interior designers. I review software and write tutorials and articles for magazines (mentioned above) and several CG sites including 3D Total. I teach 3D both on a one to one basis for clients and companies but in college courses for education authorities. Nothing to do with the topic but if you'd like to see the sort of work I produce and using Google or any other search engine is beyond your capabilities - then drop me a line and I'll send you a link to my web site :) Andy

just to answer your comments BlueLotus7. I'm not sure if you've managed to look past the end of your nose but there is more to renderosity than the kind of rubbish we are discussing on this thread and that is one of the reasons why I am here. Yes art is about creativity, I don't call downloading/buying models and clothing then throwing them into hastily constructed scenes with poor lighting and crappy composition creativity - do you? I'm not offended by tasteful art and I'd be the first to defend any genuine artist who felt they were being prosecuted but just because people have the tools, brushes, paints, software etc doesn't give anybody the right to call themselves an artist. Censorship has only become neccessary because of the direction the galleries were taking. When the merchants here are advertising "young teen" models and accessories to download you have to ask what is their primary market - or is it just me that finds that distasteful? (just as a reference it's not just me and the Daz newsletter has been the source of discussion on several forums). sooner or later if you push the boundaries you have to expect those charged with keeping things acceptable to the majority to react. Andy

2 funny things here 1, 90% of the images being discussed aren't fit to be called art never mind getting compared to the old masters. If these images were created as "fine art" they've failed so miserably it's laughable and the only reason I can see that many of them exist is because they were created as the result of juvenile fantasies - that isn't art it's porn (albeit very poor quality), no matter how you dress it up or try and justify it's existance. 2, lots of people will shout and complain saying they won't post any more stuff here, they will leave and they will post on other galleries but they will invariably return when they find that puerile rubbish like this isn't welcome anywhere and that many CG galleries have incredibly high standards where images like the ones under discussion wouldn't make it to the also rans. Andy

I realise that but if the work displayed hee in the first place was in the same "good taste" as the old masters then the ban wouldn't have been neccessary and that was the point I was trying to make. Sadly there is no point in having a "grey area" because it will only cause more work and pointless arguments. as with so many things in life, if people had behaved sensibly in the first place they wouldn't be arguing about a ban now. Andy

some potentially great arguments here and it's interesting to see that stuff (I refuse to use the word artwork) created in Poser by juveniles looking for kicks is being compared to the great masters. If the standard of work here could be compared to Boticelli ot Raphael then I'm sure the mods wouldn't have got involved. Tasteful nudity is one thing but everybody has different ideas of what constitutes good taste and who would want to risk offending somebody with their work? There are plenty of places on the internet to display low rent stuff like this perhaps the staff here have reasonably decided it's about time some standards were applied. Standards that will keep the community alive, standards that will stop the lawyers getting involved and standards that will avoid you being placed at risk for downloading material that is classed as pornographic. Get a life, unfeasibly large breasted amazonians with tiny waists, images of young androgenous characters, pre teen models, children etc are not in my opinion modelled for their artistic merit and virtual porn has no right to be displayed in an artists community. Andy

yep - got to agree ART is subjective and that was never in doubt. However - 1, painting by numbers is not art so clicking a few buttons in whatever software to produce a mediocre image in my opinion is not art 2, subjective or not crap is crap no matter how you look at it unfinished poorly textured/lit images don't need a subjective opinion they need re rendering 3, quantity does not equal quality I'm not forgetting beginners and if you'd read and understood my previous posts on this thread you would have seen that. Constructive criticism from experienced artists helps beginners. Comments like "man thats great" when it obviously isn't helps nobody. Neither does not being able to see the work posted because thousands of other images have buried it. Imagine if one artist saw some of your work and made a comment that made you think "yep, thats what was missing from my work" how much help that would be? Now imagine if that same artist had started trawling through 100+ images posted in the last couple of hours and missed yours because they had run out of time/interest. which helps you most? Andy

it's not about censorship it's about making sure the galleries don't end up so full and so busy that no one actually gets to look at them. The moderators should remove stuff that is posted as finished when it obviously isn't. the moderators should keep some sort of "quality control" sharing your work no matter how good or bad it is is one thing but try and work by the following maxim. if it's the best you can do and it's still not good enough then try a little harder. if it's not the best you can do then do it again. Work in pregress postings are one thing, but when there are many postings showing only insignificant changes you have to start questioning the logic behind posting them. When "finished work" that can best be described as mediocre receives saccharine comments and obvious flaws are overlooked without criticism you have to wonder why the galleries exist at all. Being supportive as you say is one thing but failing to criticise flawed work is as bad as posting it in the first place. what possible purpose is there in gently massaging other "artists" egos when they post second rate work? Sorry, but i'm not buying it. To call some sort of quality control a silly idea seems bizarre. It is done elsewhere on forums that are used and frequented by many many artists of all calibres and it works. but then again what do I know?

having just taken a look through the galleries and basically being taken aback by the amount of uninspiring derivative images posted there I think that a "one a week" would be a sensible limit. People seem to be rushing stuff onto the gallery calling it finished when even a six year old could see very obvious flaws. This ain't art no matter how you dress it up. the moderators need to clamp down on the lack of quality and delete stuff that is just not up to scratch. It can be done and it's done elsewhere. Being ruthless may upset a few people but it will make the majority work that little bit harder to post top quality stuff using the software they have in a creative and original way. no disrespect to the Poser crowd but there are only so many uninspiring ways to pose someone elses model without applying decent textures and trying to pass it off as artwork. I must be getting old but pre pubescant plastic porn does nothing for me - I'm old enough to know what a real woman looks like So one a week with the moderators taking a more active role in removing the rubbish gets my vote. Andy