Quote - Still missing the point. Whether Poser is "Art" is an interesting but ultimately futile discussion -- and as noted, it re-occurs at least once a month.

Maybe the problem is understanding the clear seperation of the tool from the creation. There is a handful of artists I have seen who bend the program to there will - making decent art. I also have seen really ood illustrators use Poser as a starting point for digital painting. The medical illustration field now contains a lot of art that is referenced from poser.

Then there are those who just use what is already created and do renderings.

In 2D traditional illustration the technique of trace up is widely used, especially for portraits. The real illustrator does not slavishly stick to outlines - the amature does.

Quote - Pengy's point, tho, was you can't whine about not being respected if you refuse to play by the same rules.

Quote - the ultimate point here was about trying to change the rules of someone else's game to accommodate you.

Innovation comes from refusing to play by established rules.
That said I understand the point you are making.

Quote - "Well, actually, all artists with skill and talent and vision get respected, across all boundaries."

True; especially by those who have an underlying knowledge of the creative (technical aspects) process.

Quote - Don't we have this discussion every year or so? 

Either way, I don't really mind poserdom being an economy.

Money into the hobby of poser keeps renderosity / daz / runtimedna / poserpros afloat.  Which in turn lets talented people like aerysoul for example to continue doing what they do and the poser hobbyist do what they do.

Do I agree that 95% of the poser renders on here suck ass?  Yes, mine included which is why I now post like once a year.

I guess to summarize, Renderosity has been the way it is now for a long time, it's good for business. 

Level headed thinking (above).

To further a point I wanted to make: There are people who consider themselves purists in every creative arena. Illustration buffs who consider trace ups sacrilege (despite the fact that it has been practiced since the advent of photography). Comic book artists who consider realists work stiff and unimaginative. Realists who consider comic book art to be anatomical torture of the human figure. Illustrators who think the use of 3D is cheating. 3D artists who know how tough good 3D is to create, thinking those illustrators are full of sh%t. Artists who think anything done on the computer to be fraudulent....
The list goes on.
When you have been around a while you will here all the BS.
The fact is that there are more creative tools then ever. Those who use them well will be good artists. It takes a lot of work to get there, and you are never good enough.

So learn to ignore the self anointed purists. They are hacks who should be spending their time improving their own abilities.

It is funny how the same arguments continue throughout the ages. When photography came out, and artists started using it to improve their level of realism, traditionalists were up in arms.

Not being a regular in the CG community, it is interesting to see the same arguments.

Good art consists of:

Good fundamental composition, lighting and rendering. The same is true wether it is traditional art or CG painting, or 3D.

Second; there are two types of artists. Amateurs looking to have fun, and serious ones. You can not hold amateurs to the same standards as professionals.

In traditional art you have paint by number kits. In 3D cg people offer kits.

Poser is just a tool like any other. The fact that it has a larger following of fun seekers does not diminish it's value as a tool.