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14 comments found!
I fully support jjrolands request for hands and feet improvement, and an 'out of the box' reasonably good looking hair, and clothes outfit.
If you give the figure as discussed at $50, I would not hesitate to buy, it would save me $50 (even £50 in my case) in the first day or two's work time - sorry to others if that comment pushes the price higher. Sometimes more expensive is really cheaper.
Thread: Making a new Female Base Model? Don't want to disappoint? Checklist. | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
Attached Link: start pose
Sorry about the image linking, it was in an image search and no copyright was marked. I do respect copyright, but, this one was so freely available on the web.Anyway, the image is courtesy of Hegre-Art.com and is at www.hegregirls.com/models/ellen. Do an image search on 'Ellen Nude Yoga' to see examples of body form to help model a figure on.
I have linked the image which is on my server.
Thread: Making a new Female Base Model? Don't want to disappoint? Checklist. | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
Sorry about the hotlinking bit, taking the image from an image search it did not have any copyright notices. I do respect copyright, but, this image is so freely shown.
Here is the pose again, courtesy of Hegre-Art.com for Ellen Nude Yoga. If its blocked again, the website address is http://www.hegregirls.com/models/ellen. But, do an image search on 'Ellen Nude Yoga', for body form a art its really good to show back curvature and twist.
Thread: Making a new Female Base Model? Don't want to disappoint? Checklist. | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
Toastie, so pleased to see someone else using the figures for real life applications and training and instruction. And, thank you for also saying how it is difficult to get the correct torso bends.
The cost of filming live actors, and if poroviding it for global access, the nightmare problems of image rights costs and actor's IPR. Never quite getting the camera angle right.
Then the cost of a re-shoot to change the camera angle, or get the right close-up, or improve the lighting effects. The 3D figures make it so much easier and cheaper, it means we can use these figures to get such a much greater attraction, to what we produce, by the end-user (viewer).
As soon as they produced generation of figures with the 360 deg skin mapping of real people, photo-realistic skin mapping, it transformed the figures and their potential to replace actors.
We need it in animated clips, not stills which can be more easily worked on to get the right look.
Erogenesis, if you can pull this off, I think you will have a product with demand.
Thread: Making a new Female Base Model? Don't want to disappoint? Checklist. | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
An interesting search, truly amazing what some people do, or want to do :) No twists and bends were there though, surely that's a part of erotica. We are dependent on what the photographer likes, too often devalued by being overtly crude and sadistic for commercial sex trade.
I know what you mean about the back in a twist. The back and spine is one of the most beautiful parts of the human form, both sexes, such a mixture of curves especially the inward sway of the spine, the dimples where the kidneys are, then into the curve of the buttocks.
Not to miss out the gluteal fat, which is only in the female form, that blends the lower curve of the buttock into the upper thigh in a lovely smooth flow of shape - although some women have an excess of that fat even when a trim figure. For guys that fat is not there and the buttock meets the thigh with a tight angle and crease.
But, then there is the slight curve of the stomach and ... hmmm ... in art terms I think the back wins out ... unless the front is perfectly proportioned.
To clarify, my interest is in the art form rather than erotica, although that can be an art form too, and in many cases beautiful as well. !!!
As for Poser capability, when I have time over next week or two, I will take the great pose below as the starting point, and get Poser to animate the figure bending forward to touch toes - its fairly near to a Gymnastics movement - and see what it does.
Well, I know what will happen, and try to use pulls and bulges etc to rectify. If I let Poser infill between keyframes, and it will need many keyframes, because the limb movements are way outside the limits normally used and the algorithms used do not accomodate such movements, the leg or arm will suddenly stick out of the spine or elsewhere.
Anyone else want to try it :)))
I have collected a few of Russell Flint water colours of his mostly nude studies of women, he knew how capture that magical essence of body shape. Do a Google image search on his name. This is one of them.
I have some of mine on the wall either side of dinner table, it amuses me watching people we have in for a meal, giving surreptitious glances at the paintings without making it obvious they are looking. :)
Sorry, going off topic.
Thread: Making a new Female Base Model? Don't want to disappoint? Checklist. | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
Hi Erogenesis, these two are as close as I can get for the bend and twist without clothing concealing the torso. I have some better ones somewhere.
In the first one you can see the skin stretching accross the abdomen.
In the second one, if Poser did the abdomen sideways pivot, it would lift the other side off the ground, but that is not what really happens.
It is also partly because the spine takes on a sidways curvature, and sags towards the ground at abdomen level. The ribcage stops most sideways curvature in the Thoracic region - not that any figure would be expected to give that sort of finesse, just too many points to manipulate.
Thread: Making a new Female Base Model? Don't want to disappoint? Checklist. | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
Thanks JoePublic, that is most helpful.
Re the extreme bend Erogenesis, I only posted it out of interst for what some people can do, it's not a 'normal' body position. I hate to think of her lower back and hips conditions when she is 60 !!!
To answer another comment, I use Pro 10, I was about to take the redcued offer for 12 when 14 came out. I am giving that a few months to sort out glitches then take it. I have been working through each version of Poser snice they brought out 'FigureArtist' - 2006 I think.
Thread: Making a new Female Base Model? Don't want to disappoint? Checklist. | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
I have been looking for exactly how that looks ghonma, trying to find one without clothing on the torso.
But, noticed this one, not, that we are into treme body positions.
Thread: Making a new Female Base Model? Don't want to disappoint? Checklist. | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
I appreciate the various comments.
To go back to another point earlier in the thread today, we are doing animations. Much of what is said is fine for still image poses.
Try doing that that with 30 frames per sec for a 3 minute movement, and we have hundreds of movements to build. You will, I hope, understand our discussion.
Thread: Making a new Female Base Model? Don't want to disappoint? Checklist. | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
Thanks for input JoePublic, with a real touch toes below, you can see the difference, where the usual 3D figure 3 pivot points cause totally unreal folds in the skin at stomach /chest level, and a different back shape. Its fine it the figure is clothed, doesn't matter. But we have to show it wearing sportswear, mostly bare skin.
The main problem, as in an earlier part of the thread, is the bend/twist replication, and the main issue is how the skin moves which is controlled by the bend points.
Of course I am looking for far more than the usual use of the figures and fantasy type fgures. That's why I asked about commissioning a figure for our use.
As far as I am aware, we are pioneering the use of realistic 3D figures in practical training applications. In Gymnastics, scores are increased by achieving exact body shapes set down in the rules, so, we need to show that.
The human form is beautiful, the way it moves, the shapes and smooth transition from one curve to another. Why shouldn't we want to get as near that as possible. It makes our product more desirable.
Thread: Making a new Female Base Model? Don't want to disappoint? Checklist. | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
Thread: Making a new Female Base Model? Don't want to disappoint? Checklist. | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
Thanks, give me a day or three to find it, not sure which computer the archive is in :)
Understand the compatibility issue. Maybe next year we can afford to commission a figure as we would fully like it. It opens up a whole range on new applications for the 3D figures.
Would you be up for that ??
Regards Jonathan
Thread: Making a new Female Base Model? Don't want to disappoint? Checklist. | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
Hi, thanks for a quick reply. Your bending question - sorry if I am too verbose:
Your are correct, the back verts do not bend much, but, they give a gradual bend rather than the 3 current obvious bend points.
It's about the subtle movements that make the natural look. For instance
A person, say gymnast, can twist keeping the lumbar spine (stomach/gut region) straight and only twist the thorax spine (chest region). This will make the ribcage on the side that is twisted forward, project a little over the abdomen in a diagonal flex of the ribcage, and twisting the skin over the abdomen.
The ribcage functions differently from your thought. Each rib has a flexible ligament/cartiledge joint giving rotation where it joins the sternum (the vertical breast plate bone between left and right ribs), and has a simialr joint where it joins the spine. This lets the ribcage to substantially charge shape and distort as the spine twists - and why the rib cage can be depressed 2" in CPR, and why it can expand as we breathe.
So, the ribcage is not the rigid structure fixed to the spine that the figures are modelled on, and I guess it doesn't matter if the figures are clothed. The ribcage does reduce the maximum possible bend and twist of the upper Thorax spine by around 35%
Yes, good guess the centre point of pivot for the vertebrae is about 4 to 5cm max from the outside back.
From the top of the lumbar spine (vertebrae L5) which is around top of stomach, a person can bend so their shoulders are about 25 degrees forward, and about 8 deg backwards, athletes more.
As you say, maximum bend occurs at the hip. Lumbar and Thorax spine together will give a bend of around 45 deg without hip bend, but, obviously gradually, vertebrae by vertebrae.
If you wanted, I could send a medical sudy showing how the ribcage flexes at its joints and chnages shape, I have it in digital archive somewhere - amazingly it was only fully understood how it moves in recent times. Some of Deviant Art's work recognises how the spine and ribcage move.
All this may be taking your new figure into a level of perfection you do not need. But, it would be an exciting one to use. We would certainly buy it.
Were you thinking of a male figure too ??
Regards Jonathan
Thread: Making a new Female Base Model? Don't want to disappoint? Checklist. | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
Hi Erogenesis, I am late seeing this message thread, so, my comment maybe already covered off.
You asked about extra bones, and suggested the abdomen area. Yes, yes please.
We use Poser & Daz for illustration and training in sport - artistic ones such as Gymnastics and others where body and limb movement at critical stages of a movement, are needed accurately - polevault, high jump etc, showing how the bulk of the body shifts weight around its CoG to achieve movement progression. The points of bend, and shape of back, are critical
We have great problems getting figures to bend correctly because they are missing pivot points in a bend from hip to neck. Now, if you could put one for each vertebrae, or each pair, we would really have something behaving naturally.
And that would then allow a more natural twist in the torso, especially a twist and bend. Our problems with bending and twist are greater when we animate these movements. While we can stretch and shrink skin/flesh to make a still pose bend/twist look right, that's a huge amount of work in an animation to get it looking good. And, we want realism, othewise its little more than using stickmen and puppet figures.
For athletes viewing it, we can't mask the skin/body movements with clothes, they need to see it with the figures wearing what they do - that gives a lot of bare torso skin, or skin hugging leotards which are more or less skin, to model. Now with photo-realistic skin mapping making figures look so life-like and fascinating to the end-user, its devalued by unnatural skin movement in the torso.
Yes, we can put the work into getting skin meshes to do what we need. That's workable for a one-off. But then we get asked to make ammended movements, which makes a lot of work for something that should be relatively easy.
We also use the poses in medical process illustrations. We have to morph (its more of a merge) in bone structures and organs. Take for example when we illustrate CPR resuscitation showing the ribcage and chest cavity being depressed by 2" - 40 to 50 times a minute. For realism the back will bend as the sternum (approx centre chest) and ribcage is pressed, the abdomen will be pulled, and the neck will bend, each time the chest is depressed. As the head will be twisted to one side, getting it to then bend up and down relative to the chest, rather than the angle of the head, is currently a problem.
The minimal pivot points from hip to head make it so difficult, we have to use a series on still pose animations of every 200th frame in an animation. If we let the programme in-fill between these frame points, we get odd skin twitches and oddities occuring. Rectifying these causes a twitch in a diffrent place. V4/M4 or later figures, its the same.
Of course, some will say we should be using more professional programmes, MAYA and so-on. It's a cost/income balance.
Any thoughts there re your figure ???? A solution would be really exciting. PM if you wish to.
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Thread: Making a new Female Base Model? Don't want to disappoint? Checklist. | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL