This from Tim, no less, our fearless leader: Guys, RR Admins and Mods vote for the AOY. That's been the plan for some time. It was a mistake to set it up as a public poll and we apologize for the confusion. TC Obviously you, the member-customers, are not smart enough to select the "correct" AOY. Just another way your opinion doesn't count. If this obvious manipulation offends you, please email/IM Tim and let him know. To JeffH and Lyrra--I hope you'll let your sense of fairness get the best of you and leave this post in the Poser forum. This is an issue that affects all of us, and shunting it off to Forum News just looks like you're trying to hide something. Which, obviously, you would be.

what a bs! not that i care about aoy/aom but lot of people do. the prospect of legume becoming aoy dreaded me also (;]P) but what's the point in voting for aom and not for aoy? :::grumbling under the voice: but what's the point in voting anyway... hmmm?...:::

let it be known that I am the first to get in a snicker: snicker That is all. /P

Whatever, Peng. The more I think about this development the more it annoys me. I don't care who wins AOY (though I'm a big fan of Legume's work); what offends me is the notion that if the customers won't select the "right" AOY (i.e., someone who matches R'osity's heavily postworked "corporate image"), we'll have won selected for us. It's insulting, utterly unfair, and renders the AOY meaningless.

You can say what you want about the PTSY, at least they are consistent. I didn't expect anything else from them. :P

Sometimes error speaks the greater truth, Peng.

Whats in the heart, is told by the mouth, as we say in my country, Pinguinisto ;-)

I'm not suprised. Rosity has been making one poor decision after another. Sounds to me someone thinks because they have ties to CL that they are more than they actually are. Wonder how long CL will keep the ties if rosity keeps pissing off the membership? Bad enough having to do PR work for your own problems, let alone get even more bad PR because of someone you have partnered with. It's just sad. JDexter

So the voting to day was, what, just some kind of "opinion poll" to glean the community's take on who would be best suited to be AOY? Kind of a non-binding referendum? Sort of a "well we don't necessarily agree to your choice since we know better than thee" kind of thing? Well, may I be the first to congratulate whichever Hot 20 artist whose portfolio of work is lots and lots of naked vickies, sometimes in temples, sometimes not, on becoming AOY. I would act shocked and amazed, but... sorry, can't do that on cue anymore.

This thread should get moved from this forum because it's site related, not just Poser related. It's not an attempt to hide anything. (I'm not a mod for this forum, so I can't move it, but I suspect this thread will get moved soon.)

Not being an admin, I can't say what will happen with the AOY vote, but I promise you that your points are being brought up in the Mod discussion area. I know this doesn't resolve the issue, but I hope that knowing your opinions are being brought up to the PTB helps a bit.

Thanks for keeping this civil.

"This thread should get moved from this forum because it's site related, not just Poser related. It's not an attempt to hide anything." Other, earlier AOY threads are still up in this forum. Better move them, too, and put all the V3 threads in Product Showcase, and move everything else that doesn't 100% directly relate to Poser and only Poser. Otherwise, it's not really fair, is it? I think this is an issue that affects the Poser community here--there are already threads in Forum News on this subject; this one should stay here where people have a chance to see it and register their comments. Otherwise, it looks like the mods/admins are acting out of a desire to supress dialog, rather than meet it head on.

The bigger the tits, the bigger your chance of being AoY. Never mind who makes the community (gasp) think, or laugh, or cry, or shout with outrage... And we have been told, again, that we are way too stupid to vote ourselves. Thanks, Rosity, for holding our chubby lil' hands and doing everything for us... for our own good, no doubt! As for keeping this civil... I will if the PtB start acting in an adult, civilized manner and not like some bullies.

L'ultima fòrza è nella morte.

Hi Mom! If you're reading this, Thanks for the cheese basket.

Again, I think the issue here is not who ends up being appointed the next AOY by the admins. The issue, for me, is that the admins opened the vote, then retracted it when it became clear that yet another Legume debacle was brewing. If there was ever any doubt about R'osity's abject terror of any art or artist that doesn't fit the prevailing marketplace-driven aesthetic actually getting some recognition, this dispels it. Don't be original, don't be subversive, don't offend anyone, don't make waves (in other words, don't be an artist). Shut up, you troublemakers, and go back to buying stuff in the marketplace.

I'm not sure how many people voted for Legume but I did, my reason was he's the only one of the 12 who made me smile or laugh when I look at the pics in their galleries. As the Borg say "you will be assimilated, resistance is futile". I fully expect to see more of this bs in the near future.

"I know they've been largely rigged ever since Audre won the emoticon contest she herself initiated, so this development isn't new news to me in the least." Careful Pengo, I just got an official warning for mentioning that.

If the AoY is apparently a closed door decision then they should do the same with AoM. And did someone say "assimilated"?

"I know they've been largely rigged ever since Audre won the emoticon contest she herself initiated, so this development isn't new news to me in the least." I worked here for years. And not that long ago. I wasn't involved in the emoticon contest so I can't comment on that. But I can state for the record that every contest I've seen here has been on the up&up. ScottA

Understood, X... but if Renderosity is to survive beyond the next year, it is going to have to run through some serious reform. I honestly hope they can pull it off. They're becoming a large enough business, that they can no longer afford to not know what they're doing. Sure, goof-ups happen, but their solutions need to be consistent and in keeping with laws and in keeping with their customers, even the most vocal ones. We will see over the next year if Renderosity can rise to this challenge, and if they can get things put together. /P

Wish I could say I find this suprising, but I can't. They have no interest in what we think, just how much money they can squeeze outta our wallets. It's a shame.

x-posted, Scott, sorry 'bout that. My complaint on the contests rest upon not only Audre's incident, but on the way the rules changed every time some controversial figure had won AOM, or some other front-page contest. Incidentally, there were other contests that resulted in a firestorm of controversy - one that stands out in my mind was a 2d forum contest that involved a winning member being told that she had to pick a cheaper prize other than the one promised, though I'd have to search for the specific details. I'm not levelling accusations of any illegal activity in that case, but there certainly was a bad stain on the reputation of those running it. I agree that by and large, the smaller contests are prolly run honestly, and perhaps "largely" is an exaggeration on my part. OTOH, there have been enough contest screw-ups (I've mentioned two so far, though I don't care to dig for any more) that would merit reform in the practices of this site... there is too much to lose, too much at stake for the community to not overhaul how things are run here. For example, you mentioned that coding can sometimes get haphazard... that can't be much of an ringing endorsement for Bondware, which Renderosity was supposed to showcase. I honestly don;t want to flame anyone here. I do want to strongly urge the PTB to take a good hard look at how they've been running things, and if they are indeed a business (how can they not be), then they should operate like one. Regd's, /P

No flames. Just discussing it and letting people know what I've seen from the inside. The folks here make the dumbest mistakes I've ever seen. And that's no small feat because man have I been around the block. ;-) But they aren't doing it on purpose. You don't yell at a blind man for bumping into things. You just understand that things are gonna get knocked over from time to time. That doesn't make him a bad person. Or mean he doesn't care about your stuff. More understanding and level headedness is needed here. If I made a mistake like this and I owned this site. The main thing on my mind would be how do I make this up to the members and the people who were in the running to win the AOY. Not to re-instate the poll because a few angry people think the whole world is out to get them. Perhaps if we concentrated more on finding solutions to problems. And less time on pointing fingers. Then maybe this place would not have such a bad reputation?

Mosca : Your point is a good one , but its hardly in Renderosity best interest to have a AOY that post's images of babies made / covered in shit. As for the other artist being better , thats a matter of opinion. If you really want to make a difference do like Audre sugested in the photography fourm " .. be proactive in helping set the course by joining the team. "

Apologies if somebody already suggested this, but change it to "Employee of the Year" and then nobody will be lying or subject to fraud charges. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

"The main thing on my mind would be how do I make this up to the members and the people who were in the running to win the AOY. Not to re-instate the poll because a few angry people think the whole world is out to get them." Good question. I want to say that no, I don't think the world is out to get me, and honestly I didn't even bother with the AOM/AOY thingy until this erupted... mostly becuase I consider it a learning experience to ask questions. Personally, I think they should re-instate the poll as a public one not because of a few angry people, but because they started it that way, and should, for the sake of consistency, end it that way. There is also the legal aspect, which Legume brought up... if you begin a contest, once it is begun you cannot change the rules mid-way; if there was a problem in the way the rules were originally set up, in most cases you are forced to either end the contest entirely, or to continue with the rules and conditions that are already in place. If Legume won, big deal... there would've been a few hotheads who would complain loudly, but the complaints would only reflect on the choice of the public, not on the PTB. The PTB could at that stage simply point to the poll and say "hey - the people have spoken, go yell at them." Also, there was no guarantee that Legume would've won, no matter how many Slack folk stood up to vote for him. This situation is slightly different OTOH, in that now you still see angry folks (not necessarily the same ones), but now they are pointing the finger straight at the PTB as the cause, and the PTB have no one else to point to in this case. I guess what I'm saying is, if someone is going to be the object of a flame war (which is the implied consequence), then it would be far better if the flames were pointed (correctly) at a simple case of bad taste than at an administrative action. In the spirit of letting things calm down (but not die down - they still need to be addressed), I have removed the more offending posts I had put up, in the hopes that no one else gets inflamed by the more pointed questions within them. /P

"its hardly in Renderosity best interest to have a AOY that post's images of babies made / covered in shit" I'm sorry my work doesn't have enough TITS to be real art.

"its hardly in Renderosity best interest to have a AOY that post's images of babies made / covered in shit." If that's the basis for this fool decision, then the admins should say step up and say so. So far, there's been very little feedback from relevant staff on this issue. I'd like to see someone at the admin level address the concerns of member-customers who feel that the removal of the AOY poll is unfair, cowardly and potentially fraudulent. I'd like a straight answer and an apology, and so far I'm not hearing it.

Who cares about the AOY if just Admins and Mods votes for it? Sounds like something they could do among themselves, why even post it at the site if the members are not involved?

"The main thing on my mind would be how do I make this up to the members and the people who were in the running to win the AOY. Not to re-instate the poll because a few angry people think the whole world is out to get them." I'm getting sick of being dismissed as some sort of wild-eyed conspiracy theorist. The poll was up, Legume was making a race of it, the poll is now gone and the admins say they'll make the decision. What am I supposed to think? It was a mistake? The mistake was in taking the poll down and not letting things run their course. The only way to fix it is for the admins to apologize to everyone, put the poll back up, and take their lumps if it doesn't turn out the way they want it to.

No pregnant or hanging chads, please. Not again! Since when, in the States, does the popular vote count for anything? Ask President Gore :) Now THAT was a conspiracy! Have fun. Q

Un coup de dés jamais n'abolira le hazard
S Mallarmé

Attached Link: Elephant dung artist scoops award

yeah, its the american way... fix the vote! All the way to the supreme court! lol... of course, if you can figure how to read who to vote for to start with... anyway, if legume was going to win the vote, he's sure not going to now that the supreme court got involved. This ain't the Tate Gallery, where shit actually has a chance of winning a BIG prize. :D

hmmmmmm. Don't members vote for the Poser Hot 20? ~~duck and cover~~

Perhaps if we concentrated more on finding solutions to problems. The solution, dear Scott, is easy: reinstate the poll. You started it that way. The only real solution is to end it that way. Anything else is just plain stupid.

I don't give a shit anymore who's artist of what. It has become one big farce, a joke, anyway. Let's call it (insert favorite hotshot name here)'s AoY... And it has nothing at all to do with us. So, PtB, vote for it, view it, but keep the result to yourselves. If you are so fast to dismiss us, don't bother us with the results, either!

L'ultima fòrza è nella morte.

"...but its hardly in Renderosity best interest to have a AOY that post's images of babies made / covered in shit." You're right! It's Much better to present THIS type of image to the world!!! *shrug*

Mistake or not I guess once it was started one way it should continue on that way .. What ever happens I do not envy the Admins here ... One thing I do take exception to though are the comments being made, that all you need for artist of the years is gallery full of naked Vickie's.. this is simply not true .. we voted for AOTY last year and the winner was Hobbit for heavens sake .. beautiful consistent, intricate, and inspiring work,using almost every program available not a T@A image in sight... not that I have anything against nudes.. just pointing out that Naked Vicky is not necessarily the criteria that is used for AOTY or ever has been...

Again, to all who feel cheated and insulted by this, I urge you to IM or email Tim, our fearless leader. He should know that you don't appreciated being treated like children, incapable of making a decision for yourself.

Also, just so you know, I intend to boycott the MP until this matter is resolved.

"Again, to all who feel cheated and insulted by this, I urge you to IM or email Tim, our fearless leader. He should know that you don't appreciated being treated like children, incapable of making a decision for yourself." If you don't want your threads to be locked all the time. And you don't want people to treat you like a some sort of "wild-eyed conspiracy theorist". You need to stop saying things like this.

Most Film Festivals all over the World have a popular winner, judged by the public and a jury selected winner. Perhaps a solution? Then you can all mount PR campains to make sure who you want to win does.

Un coup de dés jamais n'abolira le hazard
S Mallarmé

What was that!? Was that the voice of reason? ;-) I like how you think quixote. But you're in the wrong thread. This thread is for jumping up and down and throwing a hissy. The people who use logic are supposed to post in the Poser Technical Forum. ;-) ScottA

"If you don't want your threads to be locked all the time. And you don't want people to treat you like a some sort of "wild-eyed conspiracy theorist". You need to stop saying things like this." I'll say what I like, Scott. In fact, you're the only one that's being dismissive. You can keep trying to trivialize this issue all you want--you're an obvious apologist for the admins and perhaps that's what you've been asked to do.

Conspiracy!!!!CONSPIRACY!!!! YIKES!!!!

Un coup de dés jamais n'abolira le hazard
S Mallarmé

wahhhhhhhhhhhhh. In the big scope of things, it IS trivial

"I'll say what I like, Scott" Nope. Nothing wild-eyed about that statement. ;-) I'm actually on your side more than you know Mosca. But the way you're going about complaining and trying to rally a mob about it, forces me to defend them. The truth is they made a mistake. They apologized for it. And you didn't accept their apology. I'm concerned about Legume and the person who was in the lead in the Poll. That's where all of my sympathies are focused. I accept that a mistake was made. But I don't want to burn the place down over it. I just want to do something nice for those people who got their hopes up. ScottA

"Then you can all mount PR campains to make sure who you want to win does." Kinda like the Hot 20, quixote?

As long as it's done in an organized and civil fashion. Count me in Pablo. But the minute people start freaking out. And acting like an agry mob. I'm bailing.

PabloS: fact of life, unfortunatly.

Un coup de dés jamais n'abolira le hazard
S Mallarmé

"The truth is they made a mistake. They apologized for it. And you didn't accept their apology." I'm not convinced that that's the case, or at least that they made the mistake they say they made. And an apology doesn't fix it, for me. Why not reinstate the poll, if it's just a mistake? You haven't really addressed the issue here, Scott--all you've done is offer up excuses. "Conspiracy!!!!CONSPIRACY!!!! YIKES!!!!" Whatever. Anyone that's been here for a while will tell you that the admins have a long and undistinguished history of clumsy, arbitrary responses to anything that smacks of uprising among the rabble. I help to support this site through my MP purchases, I generally enjoy the site and I have a legitimate interest in asking that it be managed in a fair, even-handed and responsive manner. I'd welcome some input from someone with some official standing at this point in the discussion--their absence from these threads is both telling and disappointing.

I know I'm going to regret this but, when I first found 'osity several months ago, I read the rules and whatnot for the contests. I could be way off on this but I think it said that AoM was voted for by the members, and the AoY was voted out of the AoMs of the year,for by a crack team of admins and moderators. I can understand if this was their intent and they put up a poll to give us an opportunity to let them know how we want them to vote. Beleive it or not that is how the leader of the free world is elected. All that hooplah about voting and its really the electorial college that decides. The PTB should have handled and been more clear with the situation, but I think this was how they inteaded it all along. We got to 'elect' nominees through out the year as AoM's, and they select the final 'winner'. Course' I could be wrong.

The way it was presented on the poll and the front page was " It's that time of year. Vote for AOY." That kinda says it all.

Know who I really feel bad for in all of this? ToxicAngel. I mean, he had a better than even shot at winning straight up, without this ham-handed interference by the admins. Now, whoever's declared the winner, it's meaningless, tainted not by the members who are protesting but by the admins' control-freak management style.

I'm with ya there Mosca. I Feel for Legume too. Who knows what would have happened?

So maybe the intelligent thing to do at this point is just forget having a AOY? I mean, c'mon, it's sort of meaningless anyway.

I see scott there's no conspiracy, even though it looks to a lot of us "unintelligent children" that towards the end it was a two horse race between Legume & ToxicAngel. Just out of interest who voted for AOY last year? who voted for AOM all this year & last year? I'm sorry but like others have said before me you can't just change the rules in the middle of a contest because the possible winner isn't to your liking. Whichever of the 12 artists wins it now it really doesn't count any more because the PTB have overturned our decision & gone with what they want instead "again".

oh great I just stepped in shit!

"what a bs! not that i care about aoy/aom but lot of people do"

"I don't care who wins AOY"

"and honestly I didn't even bother with the AOM/AOY thingy until this erupted..."

"So maybe the intelligent thing to do at this point is just forget having a AOY? I mean, c'mon, it's sort of meaningless anyway."

If this were about the Hot20 and not a way to slam the administration most of you would be tripping over yourselves to be the first to say such things were "not important".

I'll slam the administration when I feel they deserve it too but jeez people at least be consistant.
X2000 did not deserve to be banned for bringing up Audre's contest in all this and I'll be the first to say that was a cowardly thing to do to him. But I'll also be the first to tell the membership to give them a break since it is the weekend before Christmas. I wouldn't answer to any demands right now either.

...... Kendra

x2000 is banned???

yeah, that'd be fun, seeing admins and mods voting for hot20 :P ... kendra, aom/aoy isn't important. it's no friggin' oscar or something. it's the way ptb decide (speaking of consistancy!) what's to do and what not. i don't know if they have an ci but if they do, it realy sucks!

so x2k was banned for bringing to everyone's attention that someone possibly commited fraud & that's ok is it? That really sucks big time :(

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12357&Form.ShowMessage=1011598

Umm last years prize for AOY was this: 1) A Renderosity Shirt, Cap and Mug. 2) Admission to Siggraph 2002. 3) 5 night hotel accommodations while at Siggraph 2002. 4) Artist of the Year plaque I would say that's a big deal. Not suer what this years prize is and yah you can read about X2000 banning here IIRC - weren't there prises involved in the emoticon contest? software or something?

Lets see. If I move this OT thread, I'll be razzed for 'hiding the truth'. If I do not move it I will not be doing my job, and I will be allowing someone to get away with something that even the large companies are not allowed to do. Hmmmm. You know something Mosca? I'm going to do my job, regardless of your opinion. It's not personal, however you may feel free to send any hatemail to me directly - I'm used to it at this point. As for Legume as AOY? Cool :) His work, although not always of the highest technical quality (sorry man) is a very insightful commentary of the social and political climate here and in the world at general. Lyrra the Overworked

"If I do not move it I will not be doing my job, and I will be allowing someone to get away with something that even the large companies are not allowed to do."

For clarification, just what might that be?

So now its "Off topic" to question just what the fuck happened to the AOY voting? How is that "off topic"? This is the Forum News AND Team contact forum right? Well we are contacting the team here! We would like an answer why our votes DONT FUCKING COUNT anymore! So wheres the TEAM? Hello? Nope, must be asleep at the switch as usual. Of course all these threads will be moved and locked, it happens all the time. The attitude here is if you dont like it tough, THE ADMIN DOESNT CARE ABOUT us peons. So go ahead and move and lock this thread,and all the other threads you dont want to deal with, just shows what we all know to be true. The only thing admin cares about here is money and to hell with the MEMBERS of this site.

I smell a plot by the Stonecutters... "Who controls the British crown? Who keeps the metric system down? We do! We do! Who leaves Atlantis off the maps? Who keeps the martians under wraps? We do! We do! Who holds back the electric car? Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star? We do! We do! Who robs the cave fish of their sight? Who rigs every Oscars night? We do! We do!" The Truth is out there.....

Un coup de dés jamais n'abolira le hazard
S Mallarmé

Spirit--this thread was just moved here from the Poser forum. Lyrra's just doing her job; she held off as long as she reasonably could.

.

Actually i am surprised it lasted as long as it did- well maybe not with all the new v3 stuff going on....

"We doooooooo......!" God, that's one of my favorite Simpsons episodes of all time. Thanks, quix!

Ah sorry Lyrra I didnt realize this was originally in the poser forum! I am truly sorry!

This thread was actually buried on, like, page 7 of the Poser forum. Now it can have a whole new life!

I kinda figured that Mos... :)

Un coup de dés jamais n'abolira le hazard
S Mallarmé

Now that this thread has been moved it's time to move all the V3 threads as well just to keep things fair, after all they're not Poser specific are they? don't forget the postcard thread from a while back, remember that one?

To all members, I have been out of town since friday evening, so that is why I am responding late. The AOY was all my fault. Our process for the AOY is for admins and mods to vote on the AOMs of the year. This is how we did it last year and was suppose to do it this year. I told one of our new admin incorrectly and did not realize it until friday - 2 days after the voting had started. This is no other admins fault except for mine. I will make no excuses other than to give an apology. 24. Re: Dear Tim: An Open Letter by Cheryle on 12/23/02 08:47 [Delete] Last year it was open to member vote. Trevor was winning, then there was some sort of discrepancy about the voting. The votes were redistributed. But it was voted for on the members. 25. Re: Dear Tim: An Open Letter by tammymc on 12/23/02 08:53 [Delete] Yes, that is correct. Once we found the decrepancy, we changed the process to mods and admins voting for the AOY to decrease any tampering of the process. I messed it up. tammy

I'm sure it's no fun for Tammy to own up to this and face a new barrage of slings and arrows, but you've gotta give her credit for publicly taking responsibility, dontcha think? IMO this saves considerable face. We may have our disagreements or disillusionment regarding the AOY selection process, but now we have a succinct and forthright explanation. I for one believe Tammy, the point being that her explanation means that none of this had anything to do with jitters about a potential Legume win. Because I'm one of the people who at first made that apparently incorrect assumption, I can only hope that Tammy and the staff can appreciate why it looked that way from where we sit. I'd like to humbly suggest that we non-staff members forgive and move on. Mistakes were made, accountability has been expressed, and a new year is just around the corner. I spent a few hours yesterday working on some cute holiday greetings renders in Poser for the kids in my family. What this means is that in my little world, I'm going to be considered Artist of the Year. :-) There's no reason why we all can't be that to someone in our lives. Better days, everyone!

okay so it was a mistake, I can live with that I guess...I just wish we had known from the start and there would be alot less headache over it.. Melissa

Fine a mistake has occured, no problem.Except for the fact Im still pissed that we arent considered adult enough or responsible enough to vote for AOY. That being the case I certainly wont take the time to vote in any more AOM contests. Why bother? Tammy, why dont you all(staff) just pick AOM dont even have a poll? That way you will always have the artist YOU want to win in there and no more hassels from the members? No more voting for anything? We can all just forget about AOM/AOY.Same goes for all the other contests why have a vote? Just do what you guys do best and Take something simple and COMPLICATE IT!

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=1016109

*

Duck! someone just flung as turd! Look people renderosity is here for your 3d enjoyment, Who cares who gets elected for what, Who cares who said what to whome or how they said it, Is this topic really worth getting you upset and others and waisting forum space because of some suspicions? get over it, now you can put your turd back in your butt now.....

Ha! I was right! Read the rules a while ago so I was confused when I saw the splat on the Front Page 'inviting' us to vote. We were given the chance to vote on the AOM's. The staff at 'rosity is given the chore of selecting the best of who we have chosen. Legume - it's not the number of tits in your work that keeps it from being art, it the complete and total lack of tits that keeps your work from being art. Sorry, had to say it.