...and scoop up all the admins? Are they off doing ecstasy together? Are they lost in the snow? Did their van break down? Are they locked in Ironbear's basement? I'm starting to get worried--it seems like a really long time since we've heard from them.

Probably just taking the "Holiday Season" off. I have heard rumors that admins are human, too; though I have not seen any empirical evidence to back up that hypothesis yet. :0)

Could be, could be--but how do we know they haven't fallen and can't get up? Couldn't they call once in a while? Is that so hard?

Is it too much to expect that they'd spend the days around Christmas away and with family?

...... Kendra

Well, ok--if you say so. I'm just a little worried, is all. I'll never forgive myself if something's happened to 'em--if they keel over in their apartment, it could be days before anyone finds them.

"Oh where oh where can the admins be? The mothership took them away from me... Now we're on our own and we've got to be good - So that we can be with em when we leave... this world." ;] NIMBY - Not in my basement yet. [I live in Texas... we don't have basements. Only storm cellars.]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

IB's revision of J. Frank Wilson's "Last Kiss"?

Got it in one I think. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Yeah,You did get it in one Bear. 100 times better than Pearl Jam's attempt also. 8 ) Tom

“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”

Pearl Jam did a cover of "Last Kiss"? Eeew. I may be ill....

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Actually its kind of nice without them, maybe this will start a trend? One can only hope. I'd be willing to bet though, if someone started a flame war they would be here in a flash. More's the pity. Hey lets start a C&D and see if anyone from admin notices.

Mosca, the adminstration here probably has their very own real life kids to spend Christmas time with before they would ever want to hurry back to spend time dealing with any of their online ones. I think there might be a 'signifigance' factor here on their part. You may want to chew frantically on a teether of some sort until they have time to leave all that hometown feeling and return here just to please you. Happy Boxing Day

Billy, I have seen some of your posts and have to wonder, do you really feel we should all just blindly sit by and take whatever comes from admin? Cancle the voting on AOY ?sure great decision, suspend a member for bringing up other contest irregularitys, great no prob? I have to tell you that will NEVER happen. Artists by nature are very outspoken. If you find that offensive then maybe you should reconsider coming to art sites.

yeah!...watch out Billy...don't presume to dissent with the dissenters, or they might pounce on ya, just like they accuse admin of doing with them...lol! ;-)>

He can dissent all he wants. I just wish he had a more interesting angle.

There you go Billy, you've been given permission to dissent...and I do believe the irony implicit in my last post went over some people's heads! LOL, yes Mosca " a more interesting angle"...have you ever thought to try that sometime? ...heh heh...
:-)>

"Billy, I have seen some of your posts and have to wonder, do you really feel we should all just blindly sit by and take whatever comes from admin?" Spiritbro77 I have to ask you, do you really feel the Administration staff here should all just blindly sit by and take whatever comes from Mosca? Seems to me as if they are. Seems to me they take more than their share of crap from their members and all these continuing posts are proof of that. I have been to different forums where far less is tolerated, I assure you, members here do have a big voice! I have also been enlightened somewhat as to why Mosca seems so determined to have his say, and I do have to give the Mosca due "credit" for being so determined to stick up for his friend Legume here for what he may feel to be some sort of injustice towards Legume due to some past possible grievance. I must ask if the "way" this is being enacted is indeed "proper" though?? Although Mosca's passion for all this is admirable I do wonder if all this could not be resolved with more more private avenues and not so blatantly openly obvious to make the site staff look like a bunch of imcompetent boobs. I would imagine artists to have a very outspoken voice by nature, I would expect that much and I would also take it for granted that the folks that run this place or any other art forum KNOW exactly this and what they are getting themselves in for when they open an artistic community. IF they do NOT, they have no business even trying to run an art site because it would be fatalisticly self destructive indeed! I also don't think staff of any site should be subject to all out open ridicule and abuse from anyone especially when they offer so much of a vast community area with so much potential foundation and wealth to so many here. I do wonder if the folks that run this place are used to this kind of screaming and yelling and so that is why it is tolerated so openly. I read somewhere that this place once had a big huge complaint forum of some kind that was shut down because the members didn't know how to behave or abused it or something like that. I believe this Poppi person has reminisced about this quite often and I have seen several other members bring this up more than once in various threads and sound almost like they lost their best friend when that particular forum was ended. It appears many members seem to regret losing that forum like it had some special attraction here. It's a real shame I have come so late onto all this because I would have enjoyed seeing something so vital to the members as this Complaint forum with first hand experience. If this stuff happening here is just a small example of what used to go on there, I can just imagine what a profound headache the staff must have endured; unfortunatly it also seems no one here has learned anything from the loss of this so called Complaint forum. It may explain why the members here are so cocky and full of injective attitude though. If this forum has had a more leniant time during the past and condoned so much for the sake of art, one then would understand the open rabble fests. It would indeed take time and consistent re-learning to establish conformity and teamwork, especially among so many diverse and emotionally charged creative folks; and when you have a few boisterous folks practicing their soprano lessons with every opportunity such as this, it makes restructuring even more difficult. I believe I understand this more now. It may actually have nothing at all to really do with Legume, but then again it may; and if it does, then Legume seems to be an unfortunate person caught up in all this somehow due to his outspoken art, or this past greivance Mosca is playing on, or Legume might even be being used as a catylist either by the members or the staff, (sheer speculation on my part), which would then be unfair to Legume, yes. The staff here have said that Legume has nothing to do with this, but Mosca mainatins it does, a duel of sorts? I really don't think it has anything to do with Mosca directly, except I thin Mosca certainly thinks it does, and I won't try to tell him otherwise, I do think amidst trying to speak for his friend Legume Mosca also just likes the attention he is getting too. I am starting to see that I have come onto this place just as there seems to be some kind of forum evolution of sorts, that would explain a lot of the dissention and almost near rioting at the smallest drop of a pin here; it does take so little to cause a ruckus and everyone seems so edgy and touchy even at the most spiritual time of year. I know there is also much worse forum type places around on the internet, mostly gaming sites full of snot nosed kids that don't know any better and so they are allowed to run rampant and destroy one another, those forums are great fun for sport and a great timewaster with really no substance and nothing as far as professional quality and business fortune ventures which is what these artistic places are seemingly about upon onset. One would expect a certain clientele here that would be more inclined to have structure and class and above all as much respect "for" this place as they would expect "from" this place. Right now this art forum seems a little member self gratuitous, almost like many folks here somehow got really spoiled over time and now scream "MOMMA" because they have to grow up and don't like the rules that come with that prospect. My apologies if this sounds fragilistic, I suppose this is an overall viewpoint from a newer member that has been told several times already to almost "bud out" of all this. On one hand this place is so "friendly" with creativity and community spirit and even commercialistic attraction like that of a huge family store with a welcoming committee galore. On another aspect there is almost a very dark side to this forum that shadows itself readily whenever stuff like this happens, and one such as me almost feels as if I am being ogled and watched suspiciously as I am told I am welcome and to feel at home,....."Oh, but come in fine sir, but do not touch anything or even stand too long in one place and above all keep very quiet and out of site and mind amidst the noise here because we don't like strange distractions or interruptions."

Hey, you guys can try to make this about me all you want; it's pretty much what I expected. But you know what? It's not about me. I'm just asking questions, trying to figure out what 's going on with this AOY thing. I'm being civil (more than I can say for some of management's apologists), and staying squarely within the TOS, at least as I read it. Apparently, nobody from management cares to address the message--it's a lot easier to attack the messenger. You go, boys, but insulting me doesn't change anything--it just looks like more of the usual diversionary bullshit from the PTB.

"Although Mosca's passion for all this is admirable I do wonder if all this could not be resolved with more more private avenues and not so blatantly openly obvious to make the site staff look like a bunch of imcompetent boobs." Hey, they don't need any help from me.

"I'm being civil (more than I can say for some of management's apologists), and staying squarely within the TOS, at least as I read it." "I do wonder if all this could not be resolved with more more private avenues and not so blatantly openly obvious to make the site staff look like a bunch of imcompetent boobs." "Hey, they don't need any help from me."

All right Billy and Punk, Everyting is just great. No problems at all here and if there were we really shouldnt say anything about them. Cool by me but when you get banned for stating an opinion or bringing something to light, dont expect anyone to say anything because everything is JUST GREAT! Bannings? Terrific! No more voting for Members on anything? Great! Topics being moved and Locked? Great! Now lets all sing together, Every thing is beautiful, in its own way.....

Enormous, excessive sarcasm is another symptom of change, it would seem.

"I have also been enlightened somewhat as to why Mosca seems so determined to have his say, and I do have to give the Mosca due "credit" for being so determined to stick up for his friend Legume here for what he may feel to be some sort of injustice towards Legume due to some past possible grievance. " I don't know Mosca any more than I know Legume. Seen them around the forums a few times thats it, Im pissed cause my vote doesnt count for shit anymore and the rules are changed around here in the middle of contests.People are banned for their oppinions. X2000 got suspended for a week for bringing up some disturbing occurances during a contest in the past. Fuck it, if you guys think its ok that all this is going on then woo hoo things are just great here. But when the hangman comes for you dont expect anyone to give a shit we will all be to busy enjoying how terrific everything is. Wouldnt want to rock the boat would we?

""I'm being civil (more than I can say for some of management's apologists), and staying squarely within the TOS, at least as I read it." " Doesnt matter if your within the TOS, if they dont like you or what you are saying you will dissapear, if they do like you and what you are saying you can violate the TOS all you want and be safe.

Well, the answer is fairly simple, Mosca: The admins have been here all along, and you've even been debating with 'em this whole time. Kinda funny, after a fashion, though it is kinda sad in a way. /P

I don't know you, Spiritbro77 any more than I know Legume or Mosca. Seen them around the forums a few times thats it, Im pissed cause my opinion doesnt count for shit here anymore than anyone else that may be 'green' and the rules are changed around here midstream by the members. People are spat on for their opinions. The staff here are less respected for what they do or say than a bunch of sniveling, slurping, dirty morons in a soup kitchen. Fuck it, if you guys think its ok that all this is going on then woo hoo things are just great here. But when you all hang yourselves dont expect anyone to give a shit. You may all be to busy enjoying how terrific everything isn't when you see a "site not found" at the top of your browser. Wouldn't want to rock the boat of dissention mongers would we? You know, I can be just as fond of playing with sarcasm as the next person, and I also think it works BOTH ways. Perhaps we should just appeal to the staff to allow this place to actually BE a free for all and pass out guns, ammo and knives and maybe even bazooka's at the entranceway and let the membership and staff go at it?? Better yet, let's lynchmob the staff and scramble the prizes and take over the joint and ransack the entire marketplace and make the gallery and discussion boards a free for all!! I would actually be inclined to enjoy such a fortune of caustic, catastrophic events a place such as this would endure in a scenario like this, the bloodshed and waste would be a tale to be told for countless ages online, but at what kind of cost? How long has this huge place been here and taken to grow to such gigantic proportions? I have also heard from various sorts that what I have just proposed sarcastically above has pretty well happened here before anyways; it was all a part of what indeed has made this place so...BIG...and also prosperous and precious in many ways. Do we go backwards now and relive that enactment and see if we can do this all again? I would hope this place has learned from past and gone forward enough to somehow deal with this more professionally and diplomatically as a result of past scrambled charging among the ruins. I think that if anything, the staff here may be wanting to make certain that all the things here that have been "gained" through past hardships, are maintained and even enhanced to grow forward towards a more peaceful and professional outlook instead of backwards to where it seems no one really respected anyone unless they had a bigger gun or grenade up their nose instead of a flowing brush and creative hand. I can comprehend the value of a free for all and more "space" in a place that may be a lot smaller and where everyone really kind of knows one another. I have seen that format work most efficiently in such places because then the members really do have a way of taking care of themselves and any rigamortus that may offer themselves into that kind of scenario is deadmeat on their own accord. It is all about teamwork and friendship and close bonding and actually really "caring" about one another and coming together time and time again and sharing that same space and "knowing" each others boundaries and respecting the value of one another both individually and as a whole. That works if you have the right people and the right place, and I think although there are many, many people here just like this, there are also many not like this; this place is just too BIG for it to work this way here. Ironically I do think the staff here do want this kind of flavor here, but because it is so darn huge, it needs policing and policing can be hard and direct and cold and it can get in the way and be looked at the wrong way especially in an emotionally charged place like this where you get folks from both sides of the coin happening too often and out of control too easily. Many may come here for family reasons, many others may come here just to be a pain in the ass and many others may be here just to sell or profit, and yet many others just to buy stuff and others, just to post a show and say "look at me!" Then you get folks that are like me that just come to look at pretty pictures and suddenly stumble in one day to see what else is here. Now, I may well have easily crossed the wrong person here myself if I was that way and gotten myself banned or cast out quite easily too, it sometimes doesn't take much even in the real world to get stopped by a cop. I have seen people get stopped by police and begin to give them an earful midstream of getting a ticket which resulted in another ticket and eventually even a pair of handcuffs and a visit to the station because they could not shut up! Maybe the person being fined had a point about being picked on while ten other folks got away speeding, or how she saw the officer looking up her skirt or maybe the officer was being unfair somehow or not within the rights of the law; but was she making this point the right way at the right time and is there not a place better to do this and a better way than to risk losing that credibility for the sake of the moment? And what if the officer was right and the person fined was just causing grief and spite for getting caught? I think once a place gets THIS big as I see this place being, it becomes like real world economics and requires laws and a specific order or it does stand to lose more than it can possibly gain from a free for all place where the membership should be trusted to sort out the mess in whatever way they want. Just like a real world scenario I don't think the amount of members and staff here can really be expected to have this place with no rules and conduct and responsibility because in such a vast place there is just far too much heresay and variance of circumstance, nevermind emotions aplenty. I do wonder though, if a place such as this, that has needed to "enforce" policing of sorts to keep the place from in fact falling apart from so many mindsets and diversities, whether they shouldn't really consider having some kind of jury system?? What I mean is, hearing how folks are banned and seeing how things can get out of hand so easily and I am sure just as members can be unforgiving, so can staff at times, the emotions DO run high here bigtime, perhaps the staff here take on too much responsibility to themselves, and thus pay the price of disrespect at times because members scream unfair and shady! Maybe in some cases they should consider appointing a cast of members, some known, some unknown, perhaps picked randomly, before a judgement like a banning is decided with the final decision made by the staff of course. It "would" make members here more close to the various issues at hand and it would also give the vast membership here more responsibilty for their own actions too. This could also work with contests if done with respect to "both" sides here. I think "respect" is what it's all about here. I see that being an issue more and more. I think ultimately what IS most important is that the site is respectful in what it is trying to portray to the internet masses, and I think both the staff and members know this and want this very much but none of them want to give up any of their own respect to make this happen. Maybe this place needs a good brainstorming session rather than so many emotional outbursts upon the boards.

Yeah Sherm, Eddie Vetter did the worst remake of any song with that one. But I warn you.If you seek out this recording,please arm yourself with a barf bag and perhaps a moist towelette. It was even worse than Smashing Pumpkins trying to re-do Landslide. I could have sworn I was listening to Jerry Lewis and was waiting to hear"Nice Laaaaydy". Dude needs to seriously unclog that schnoz. 8 ) Tom

“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”

LOL, if you choose to be an admin (and it is a choice) then you must expect some crap to be flung in your direction. Comes with the job - especially on the internet. Sorry but the admins and many mods are paid to watch the forums (no matter how they are compensated - they are compensated somehow), so it's their job - not something they don't have to do if they don't feel like it or because its a holiday. No one has a problem with this place having rules because it isn't the "rules" that are the issues, it's the inconsistencies in applying them and the fines cited for rules that don't exist. Or rules applied only because they are having a problem and need to make a rule to deal with it. If X2000 still had his store here while he was banned - the site would still be making a profit while he had no rights to enter -all because he pointed out past behavior of a certain mod??? To garner respect that you m,ust exhibit the same behaviour that you wish to see in your direction. That means that if they choose to cite previous contests as an excuse for unprofessional behaviour then they must expect and recognize that their own mistakes can and will be made an issue as well. As for "emotional outbursts" lol, they would far prefer that an argument was emotional - if it's logical then they will ignore it anyhow. Emotional outbursts make the poster look like a fantic and they would far prefer that then having to address a real question put across logically. The thread by Mosca below (that you and LC tried so hard to take off track) was created from a non-emotional stance. The points he made in the beginning were well put and franky quite on target. But then you got personal & emotional ("Do you have a nagging wife Mosca? With no offense meant at all I only ask this because sometimes those that do usually have a lot of issues, like you seem to." - let's face it you wouldn't have posted that if you hadn't meant offense) and took it off the track it was on. Admins never responded or answered either, and now when they do it willbe to address the bickering and not the original topic.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

hawkfyr, something to be said about Jerry Lewis, but this isn't the place for it. LadySilverMage, (nice catchy name, very sultry and eloquent), something to be said for throwing threads off track and hawkfyr above just did it very well. As for the nagging wife bit, if it makes Mosca feel better, I had one of those once too. She nagged and nagged till she was blue, if only she might have taken the time to stop nagging for even a moment, she might have realized I was attempting to say..."Goodbye, I have had enough of your nagging!". Sometimes it takes longer for some folks to reply than others, if they in fact CAN reply. Although if what you say about the admins here getting paid for their efforts is true, they would indeed be expected to fashion a reasonable accord here not only to staff issues but membership issues as well. However they would still have to answer to whomever pays them. The folks that actually run the place most likely DO have a real life sp easily forgotten in the online realm of things, just like every other person here has a life I would hope to presume. I would also assume that an answer so valued by Mosca for his pleas is one that would most likely make no difference to anything if it came from anyone less than this Tammy or whoever else oversees this art forum. And then there is that ever lingering question of whether an answer is even warranted, because an explanation WAS given and responsibility WAS claimed, unfortunatly it WAS also not good enough for Mosca, thus, we have, many, many posts unending here. Perhaps the best we can hope for is a valid solution to future development about all this, as has been proposed and apparently being worked on, "hopefully" from both sides. I still wonder if a jury idea might not be a bad idea; okay, so what if the folks running this place are paid, sometimes that in itself can even get in the way of emotional substance too because monetary value can so easily overtake the heartfelt passions of human thinking. If a team of totally unbiased and unswayed persons that have no expectations whatsoever and feel no fear of backlash could be summoned to quench the real heavy issues here when need be, I think it would make a difference to both sides. Just an opinion. Unfortunatly I haven't a clue how this could be done or if it is even possible in a forum place like this. That is why I suggested the brainstorming.

BillyJ wrote somewhere deep in #26:

I do wonder though, if a place such as this, that has
needed to "enforce" policing of sorts to keep the place
from in fact falling apart from so many mindsets and
diversities, whether they shouldn't really consider having
some kind of jury system??

A jury system? You mean like, a vote? They tried that and
it didn't work. :-)

A vote like that you suggest ASalina is not at all the same thing as a jury. That would be like having a country wide vote determine the fate of each court hearing. Somehow I don't think that would prove justifiable. Let it be known that I do understand the sarcasm of your post though, comparing it to what happened with this contest is commendable although it is nothing even near the same. Your kind of "vote" scopes the vastness of the internet and beyond, my opinion is one kept to a mainframe of only a very few "members and staff" actually deliberating between themselves and then approaching the people in charge who would ultimately still have the final word, hopefully based on the decision among the team depending on argument and circumstance.

"because an explanation WAS given and responsibility WAS claimed, unfortunatly it WAS also not good enough for Mosca" Billy I think that comment above is the problem - you seem to feel that Mosca is the onoy one wiht a problem over this, in fact many have a problem over the way the past contests (and current one)are handled. Generally though Mosca is able to aks the hjard questions succintly. Me - I don't really bother questioning anymore, I may comment now and then - nothing will change and answers will generally be evasive. I have done what my conscious has decided - which was to pull my store from here, when I & others were treated unfairly. I still make an occasional purchase here, but I look elsewhere for what I want first before I buy it here. I do not vote for the contests because I feel there is really no point in that. Time and time again this has shown to be the case. Perhaps in your rush to be judgemental to Mosca you are overlooking something. He wouldn't bother if it didn't matter to him.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

"LadySilverMage, (nice catchy name, very sultry and eloquent)" Because I am ;-D

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

BillyJ wrote in #31:

Let it be known that I do understand the sarcasm of your
post though, comparing it to what happened with this
contest is commendable although it is nothing even near
the same.

No, Billy, I don't think you quite understand my sarcasm.
Given rosity's apparent track record w/r/t letting members
make decisions (as manifested in various votes and polls),
the idea of a jury system - where a set of members make
decisions that the admins must abide by - will never work.
From what I've read here, it would seem that rosity has a
tendancy to over-ride the decisions of it's members at it's
whim. That would render any member-based jury system
toothless.

Addendum to my last post:

BillyJ also writes in #31:

Your kind of "vote" scopes the vastness of the internet and
beyond, my opinion is one kept to a mainframe of only a
very few "members and staff" actually deliberating between
themselves and then approaching the people in charge who
would ultimately still have the final word, hopefully based
on the decision among the team depending on argument and
circumstance.

If those in charge would still have the final word, then
what would the point of a jury be? As it stands we have
a jury system like what you describe; we're all jurors
right now, deliberating until we're blue in the face, and
as can be seen it's effecting absolutely nothing.

Hawk didn't throw it offtrack, BJ. Hawkfyr picked back up with a track from posts # 8 and 9 that were running shortly before you dropped in. ;] No fears Hawk - I can get enough Pearljam fed to me on the commercial stations when I'm driving. I'm not likely to go out looking for anything by them. Joan Jett and the Blackhearts did the only really good remix of a 50's tune I've heard over the years. A lot of the people doing covers should stick to butchering their origional works.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

If I can get thru Metalica doing, Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Tuesdays Gone", then I can get thru just about anything ! Even BJ's frickin novelettes !

I was wondering if it would be possible, when the AOY issue has been dealt with, for the Admins to organise a free-for-all fight between the more vocal members of the community. A real one, I mean, perhaps organised in the theme of a tag match or a gladiatorial contest, with weapons and nets. And lions. As very few of the arguments on this board (I mean discussions, of course) are ever concluded satisfactorily, I had an idea that unabridged violence might be the answer. Photographs of the carnage could then be posted in the photography gallery for all to enjoy. The logistics of this would have to be thought about, but I reckon it could work. And if it proves successful, a similar method could be used to settle all Renderosity disputes, no matter how small, and everyone would be the better for it.

What a great idea ! In case of a tie all the renderosity members could vote for the winn..........oops, never mind..........

Well, perhaps Tammy and Company can even organize a Lion pit and Gladiator combat to settle these disputes, since your all so funny now, thought I would join along in the festivities. I think that's a swell idea, so who should go first and where...??

No lions - wolves; easier to come by wolves in North America. LOL@ Badco... yeah - wouldn't want anyone to get any funny ideas, dammit... >:) /P

"I think that's a swell idea, so who should go first and where...?? " grabs Billy and throws him into the pit Ko. Loose the Mutant Ferrets! ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

"Seen them around the forums a few times thats it, Im pissed cause my opinion doesnt count for shit here anymore than anyone else that may be 'green' and the rules are changed around here midstream by the members." Sorry, but there is a difference. Mosca's opinion could be summed up as "I'm upset about this and I want to express my feelings about it." Yours could be summed up as "I want Mosca to shut up already, I don't want to hear it." Doesn't work, sorry.

As an ex-C&D mod to an ex-OT mod, wanna get a betting pool going on "Who is BillyJ really?" ;] I'm sure that between all of the regulars in the 5 or 6 threads on this, we've got enough accumulated forum years of observation to make some turly entertaining guesses. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

IB it's Legume hes turned over a new leaf and HATES controversy!

Sure, whynot? What's teh ante? I'm low on money, but I've got... uh... fruitcake..... (Hang on, I just identified the subject.)

Hrmmm... I'm low on cash also. ;[ AH! I have a pan and a half oc double-chocolate-fudge-suicide brownies left. Heh heh... we can make the ante "Left over XMass snacks". Only trouble is, some of these things don't mail well... so getting the pot to the winner might be problematical. Nah.... Spirit - I think it's ClintH. He's been working in the store so long he finally snapped. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Nah, if Clint snapped, he'd be at the beach, happily walking on the water. ;]

And if JeffH snapped... no one could tell. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

My bets on Tim. "Nah, if Clint snapped, he'd be at the beach, happily walking on the water. ;] " " And if JeffH snapped... no one could tell. ;] " Too fuckin funny!Now I have to clean the burbon from my keyboard!

Lurking for a year (and occasionally posting) I don't think it's Tim. BillyJ is way too wordy. I think the thing that will link him to who he is really is his very first post in he Poser Forums (And this relates to poser how?) and his making sure to add the cheery ending at the end of each of his posts. Food for thought. JDexter

One phrase of widom: "Plastic keyboard covers". Just ask Diao. I think she's already had to replace two keyboards so far after reading in the Tavern. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Hrmmm... in the ". You know you're addicted to Renderosity when..." and the "This is just a thought..about gallerys" threads, JDexter? Interesting. I also got a hit on that search from a 2000 thread on copyrights, and I can't figure out why that one came up in the search. Nothing in the thread met the search criteria at all. Yah. I agree with you - past postings and posting styles are the best telltales. Just a matter of watching and putting them together. I can count the number of people on the net who can switch to a new personae and not lose consistency or leave telltales back to their others on one hand with fingers left over - and that over 15+ years of watcing various forums and BBS's. ;] There's not many of them.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Interesting. You actually think I am someone else then? Is that it? That is a weird summation. As far as I know, I am Billy James. Is this all some new form of turning substance to liquid? I guess that's a very easy way to make someone sound very lame around here, just accuse them of being someone else and be done with it. I assure you, I am Billy James, (at least last time I looked in my mirror), and I have no clue what you people are going on about here. It might be real fun playing this kind of game, I just wish I wasn't in the center of it all, it makes me feel kind of weird, if you know what I mean.

I think you guys owe BJ an apology. Acusing him of not being who he really is ! Sheeeeesh ! I can kind of understand their point of view just a little bit, BJ. I do know of a way that you can prove who you are. If you have a credit card with your face and signature on it, scan it and post it, then we will know for sure !:^>

I did like the sarcasm around here to a degree, but now it is getting tiresome and rather personal. I WAS under the impression this was a friendly artistic site, I am really beginning to wonder why I thought this now while I converse among some of you people. I am actually sorry that I even began to post on these forum discussion boards, because if this is how folks are treated around here by the members, I really don't want no part of this whatsoever. I feel bad for the folks that run this place, because now I can understand exactly what they have to endure from some of you here, any wonder things are the way they are. And you people have the adacity to complain about the staff here?? Look at the way some of you folks treat new members!!

IB, you got the hit on the copyrights thread because someone said BillyJoeBob in the message text. It had me confused for a minute there too. BJ, considering the adversarial tone you took from the very first post, don't take offense to people questioning who you really are. Most newbies that I have seen posting don't usually start off their posting careers that way. JDexter

Ok BJ since your new here, Ill give you the benifit of the doubt, If you really are a newbie here you gotta know that sometimes the ADMIN here use clone accounts to post to the fora in disguise. Since you have taken the stance that staff are always right and can do no wrong, some of us assume that you might be part of said staff and are using a clone account.Its not personal, and if you are who you say you are then sorry bout that.

c'mon guys... at least he has gallery images up now (heh.) He (!?) sounds a lot like Audre, and a lot of the semantics fit real well, but I ain't laying any cash down just yet... I wanna see a few more posts first. /P

Probably won't be any more posts Peng ! He/she sounds like you have hurt her/his feelings by being big meanies and that now, he/she is going to take his/her ball and go home ! If he/she says that we will, "rue the day", I'm just gonna roflmao...................

"rue the day"... LOL! Err, who talks like that anymore? :) /P

"Err, who talks like that anymore? :)" Verily not I !:^>

Withnail

I'm not a very established member of this community, and when I do post something it's hardly on the level of most artists here. But I just want to make one comment, and take this as it's meant, as politely as possible. Mosca and the others who are so bent on getting an answer from the admins about the AOY: Just hush, and enjoy the holiday. It won't kill you to take a breather and relax, and let your blood pressure drop again. Let the admins enjoy their holiday as well. That's my two cents. Flame me all you want about it, if you must. But really, I think you're overreacting.

"I guess that's a very easy way to make someone sound very lame around here, just accuse them of being someone else and be done with it." Nope. I love a good argument, boy - I just like to know who I'm arguing with. 'Course, I guess a keyphrase there is "good argument". I'll tell you why I'm certain you're not what you're pretending to be, without once telling what the giveaway is: you have a consistent telltale in your postings that only one other person I know of who's active on all of the graphic boards uses regularly. A couple of other people occassionally use that telltale, but they don't do it every time, nor are they drawn to forum brawls like a moth to a flame, nor are they known for a long history of cloning. And when I run that telltale here in the site search... TWO people come up acrost the board: BillyJ, and that person and their known clone ID's. ;] Won't convict in a court of law, but it would in a court of popular opinion where circumstanial evidence is the best you get. And no - I'm going to be a mean SOB and not say what the telltale is: you might change it and then I couldn't track you. I'll let you worry about it - it'll keep you happy and occupied. snicker

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

I guess it's time to come clean. I am BillyJ. I'm also the actor inside Alf.

Heh heh. You were my first guess, Scooter. But... no, yer not. ;]p~~~~~~

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

"Mosca and the others who are so bent on getting an answer from the admins about the AOY: Just hush, and enjoy the holiday. It won't kill you to take a breather and relax, and let your blood pressure drop again..."

elgeneralisimo can see it now. Legume, Mosca, and others sitting motionlessly upon the floor, crystals clenched in their overly tensed white-knuckled fists, incessantly droning "Renderosity uber allis" until all of their worrisome thoughts are cleansed away...

Silly people...at the risk of getting flamed, do you not have anything better to do? Happy Holidays.

"do you not have anything better to do?" no

Silly Avalonne - this is what we do. g Merry Christmass

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

roflmao

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

I wuv you, you wuv me, we are just one big happy family......

Cool, a game! May I play, too? :) I'll ante 3 dozen persimmon cookies. I'll say that BillyJ is really Dragonwalk. The overall appearance of the posts (usually short and then wallopingly verbose) and the minutiae of word choice (decent vocabulary, but spelling issues). The scattered quote marks and egocentrism strongly point to Ron Knights, but my neck hairs aren't rising with revulsion and RK has a couple of distinctive grammatical quirks which I haven't seen here. It's got to be Dragonwalk. Carolly

Wow! Astute observations! But beware! If all is true then they/he/she might create a clone to discredit and solve the riddle they have created.

wakes up.....yawns....waves at IB & Hawk.....giggles...rolls over & goes back to sleep

I think you're right Carolly. Besides, I think Ron is still hiding under a rock somewhere. ;) Not to hard to spot him and his clones, he really sucks at hiding who he is.

Interesting. I have not posted for well over a day and yet I still seem to be at the center of some bit of "contravesry" here? "I'll say that BillyJ is really Dragonwalk. The overall appearance of the posts (usually short and then wallopingly verbose) and the minutiae of word choice (decent vocabulary, but spelling issues). The scattered quote marks and egocentrism strongly point to Ron Knights, but my neck hairs aren't rising with revulsion and RK has a couple of distinctive grammatical quirks which I haven't seen here. It's got to be Dragonwalk." May I please be so daring as to ask you people exactly what this is about? I am talking about this reference to me being these other members here I can find little if any info on other than a LOT of posts at another forum. I do not understand why it is that just because someone happens to be a certain way or be new and caring about what is going on here, maybe not to the same efforts as a lot of other folks here that would rather run this place down every chance they get; or perhaps fashions a certain manner in their writings; right away they have to be someone else or have other motives?? If there is a lesson to be learned here somehow, someway, maybe that not all is ALWAYS as you people would like to "announce" it to be, because I assure you I AM Billy James. Perhaps my style and passion may be similar by the way I feel and write, but I am no more this DragonWalk or this Ron Knights as I would be Bill Gates or President Bush. There sems to be this relentless fear here that anyone willing to speak up or talk with compassion towards this art forum, or be too differential to what some strongly opiniated members of this site feel IS the way things SHOULD be, then right away I would just HAVE to be someone else or have some ulterior motive other than what I try to portray with what I say. That is really sad, and it is also very "low". It just goes to show how suspicious and also fragmented some outspoken people in this place have become, and yet, on another factor, there IS also a kind of unity here which impresses me, the one where a lot of you seem to enjoy banding together to try to have your own suspicions and almost fight tooth and nail to support each others contraversy for the moment. If this kind of "team effort" could all be harnessed somehow to solve the issues here with "respect" and "dignity" for the "good" of this "site" and the "members" as a "whole" rather than play these silly games of "clue", I really do wonder what might prevail from it all. If I were to actually tell you that I happen to know for a fact that the folks that bring this place to you day after day are indeed real human beings that do care, so that you can all come here for your creative or commercial reasons or suspicious spy games or just hang and party passions, or even if you feel the need to idle here for a sense of familiarity, I am sure so many of you would find me even more pallatable as some lunatic clone person ready for roasting. Okay, I will make your days somewhat more worthwhile here. If it will make so many of you feel better, I confess that I am not Billy James at all. I am a hybrid mix of both this DragonWalk and Ron Knights, out to take over this 3D Art Forum. I am sure this should now be more than enough contraversy to last well into the new year for many of you. If this is what you need to believe, then go for it. I know who I am and it makes no difference to me whether I can prove that I am Billy James or Oscar Wylde or anyone else because I have managed to cause many of you to "think" and be selfless enough to come together and solve some weird puzzle so many of you seem to have a need to make me into. If this will make even a small difference and somehow keep bringing you folks together and just maybe even generate some positive fallout or goodwill towards the fortune of everyone here, than you people are welcome to think of me as whomever you want. As for me, I am off to view some creativity in the galleries. And if you don't mind, I will keep my name "Billy James" because I am not into Dragons or Knights as much as some of you would like to assume me to be. I hope this does not disappoint you. I don't really mind if you want to keep imaginaing me to be whomever, just don't let these thoughts hurt anyone or this site on my account, that just would not be right at all. Have a good Sunday.

Hrmmm.... You wanna run that one past us again, BJ, only try typoing it in English this time? I think you got it in one, Carolly. Just don't give away all of his telltales. ;] waves at Jackie Don't overinflate Billy. You're an amusing diversion - but that's all you are.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Let me give you some advice BillyJ since you say you're a newbie here. You should try lurking for awhile and getting a feel for the forums before diving head first into threads like these. ;) That's a good way to get yourself roasted before you've even had a chance to make friends.

Well, with a name like BJ, she can't be all that bad ? heh heh !:^>

"If this kind of "team effort" could all be harnessed somehow to solve the issues here with "respect" and "dignity" for the "good" of this "site" and the "members" as a "whole"" Frankly it isn't our job to solve any issues here at all - I already have that job elsewhere. And thus far no complaints- we shall see down the road how that works out, but it's been 2 years.... "I am talking about this reference to me being these other members here I can find little if any info on other than a LOT of posts at another forum." I thought you said you didn't know of any other forums and were new to all of this? Maybe I misunderstood - or else you've done ALOT of background reading (good god! that must have been time consuming). "There sems to be this relentless fear here that anyone willing to speak up or talk with compassion towards this art forum, or be too differential to what some strongly opiniated members of this site feel IS the way things SHOULD be, then right away I would just HAVE to be someone else or have some ulterior motive other than what I try to portray with what I say" That kind fo rambles - but rest assured that strong opinions were never the issue - your immediate need to attack Mosca when if you are a newbie you couldn't possibly understand the frustration of long time members was the issue. Still you insist that you know the agenda of the admins/mods of this site, yet you are so new as to have no history here only a deep understanding of what's going on?? Come on! Even my admins and mods wouldn't claim to know all about me and I consider them friends, so why would a newbie who knows nothing of the history of my site. That being the case how could anyone claim to be able to "assure" us of the intentions of anyone other then themselves? Frankly I don't care if you are a clone - I do care (mildly) when you insist that everyone else prefers to start a fight therefore implying you are the only one making a valid point when frankly you haven't really made a point that has anything to back it up with from the history of contests on this site. Other than that it's just a dance that maybe you should learn the steps to ;-D

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

LadySilverMage, (and I still do like your name), it is this Ironbear above that introduced me to "other art sites" which compelled me to "look around." I am not an idiot and I can manipulate the internet well enough to find my way around and I do enjoy the passion of reading the forums as much as I do looking at the various galleries. One of the reasons I began posting here is because I developed a sincere interest in becoming more involved in the community instead of just looking around. Unfortunatly I don't have much to offer other than writing and giving opinions because I am not an artist. After reading a lot around here I felt it was safe to participate even without having to post artwork. Yes, I have looked at everything available to me historically here, especially since I seem to have gotten myself into this contraversy here where some folks seem to believe I am here as some strange catch of the day and therefore a roasting we will go. I began looking at the history of this place long before I decided to state my opinion in the Copyright forum here. I would not just scramble myself into such a heated debate without at least knowing what some of the stuff here is about, and it is nice to know who these various members are. I also like to follow certain members here historically since I fancy their artistic talents and what they offer in a place like this and what they are all about. Mind you, time restraints and fragmentation does create limitations but I haven't just started doing this yesterday, I have been here long enough to know my way around. My own words should be proof of that, but I cannot understand why this makes me "suspicious" other than some of you almost hoping I am someone else for entertainment value, probably because I sound like someone else. Mongo, this is directed at you. Please do not feel any lesser or feel I am flaming you in any way because I say this, that is not my intention. You have stated that you are a clone person and that you felt the need to do this to protect that real side of you that participates upon this art forum so that you can give opinions and be on the discussion boards without fear of retaliation or finger pointing or this interfering with your real person format here. I find it very sad that you have to do this Mongo. You, and I am sure others like you obviously feel this place very worthwhile to your needs and as well you bring value to this Art Site in many ways and it to you, yet, you find it very difficult, almost impossible to be "yourself" here because you believe you cannot be both things at once. It should not have to be this way. But I can understand, especially when stuff like this happens. I get the feeling people here are ready to string me up here just for having a voice and wishing to be a part of the community only because I come into this with a varying opinion and a suspicious way of portraying myself. LadySilverMage I have nothing against Mosca, I don't even know Mosca. I would hope you realize that any person coming to this forum even today for the first time would realize Mosca is a very signifigant person here with all the posts thrown throughout this forum by Mosca. So is it wrong to direct opinion on such a loud person here? I seem to have stepped on several toes here unwillingly, but nevertheless, I have already been told this is a bad start on my part. Again I stress, if this is how some of you folks deal with newer unknown members that wish to participate here but may be different or too outspoken, then perhaps it is understandable that this site management has its' hands full. No wonder they make mistakes and no wonder they are not quick to bother replying. Their words might only be dissected and thrown into their faces too. Good Sunday

Reads over preceeding drivel, starts to reply, gives up and collapses in laughter ROFL! Having fun Rad? ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Ironbear, what is Rad and why would it be fun? I seem to be missing something very crucial here.

"Reads over preceeding drivel, starts to reply, gives up and collapses in laughter" Yep Gotta agree IB I started to reply and said Fuck it, why bother. ....Pops open another beer and goes back to football......

Well BJ if you knew anything about this site you would know Rad wouldnt you???????? lmao DW you crack me up.Got any Liver?

Actually didn't know, do now. Nevermind, I think all of you are the ones missing something very crucial here. But I am not in the mood to explain. Enjoy your Sunday.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=304672&Start=1&Sectionid=8&WhatsNew=Yes

Here's looking at you all. I do admit this place is even more fun than I imagined, although a bit frustrating in these circumstances. Of all things about this place, the galleries here are the most relaxing to me because I can just look at pictures without folks assuming I am someone I am not. I suppose suspicion is a normal reaction to unfamiliarity. At least Homer Simpson knows me from Adam, or should I say this Rad, or DragonWalk, or Ron Knights, or whatever person may be next. We could make this fun and suggest I am even you Ironbear, pretending to be me pretending to be this Rad? Or Spiritbro77? I think if anything I would rather be LadySilverMage because that name is so catchy. Want to trade? On the other hand, she is a lady, wouldn't be right, and that would only get Homer excited and confuse my kids a lot. Good Sunday

Well BJ, oh never mind !!!! On second thought.........nahhhh I just can't............ Hey IB, are you sure you didn't mean nad ?

I'll thank you to keep my nads out of this, BadCo. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Oh sure, its all about you ! hehe ! Your nuts..................

"You're nuts, Doctor Jones!" "Yeah? What about them?"

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Are you ok ? You seem a bit testy !

Well I dont know the dude but could this be a bebop clone?

No, I am not bebop, I am not Rad, or Nad, I am not DragonWalk nor am I Ron Knights. I am also not HairBall or liftan or any of those variations of people. I am also not an Admin. Nor am I a Mod. I do not hate Mosca. I don't hate Blackhearted. I do not hate the Poser Pros place. I actually like Legume's artwork a lot. I do not work for Renderosity. I do not work for Curious Labs. I am not a clone. I am not a clown. I am not a troll. I am just BillyJ. And as you can see, I do know a lot; I read and learn. And one last thing, I really like art a lot; one good picture is worth a thousand and one forum posts. Happy Days

Ok, I got what everyone was talking about with this RadArt stuff. So I did a search in the members photo gallery and this is what I came up with. Now, no way do those two look the same. One has to be in their '20's in their Disco outfit (stayin alive,stayin alive) the other looks to be in their late forties. If those two are the same, then I'll eat my shorts.

Would you like some salt, and perhaps some catsup? ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

where does Blackhearted fit into all of this?now really confused ;)

Wow, does anyone here really believe that everyone posts their real pictures (or up to date pictures) of themselves here? ROFLMAO I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

Yah-huh.

Hey Mongo, that's a real cool picture of you, suits you too, why, I swear you look just like..naaww, couldn't be. "Wow, does anyone here really believe that everyone posts their real pictures (or up to date pictures) of themselves here? ROFLMAO I have a bridge I'd like to sell you." You folks mean to tell me all those nice pictures of people on the front page here are not for real? And what about the membership gallery?? Can I buy the San Fransisco Golden Gate Bridge? I like that one a lot, it's very romantic and it would really wow the ladies if they knew I owned it. I gotta admit _Peter, this DragonWalk fella sure has aged rather quickly according to his picture at the other forum. Is this what too much computer time does to someone? Or poser? Oh my. Which now brings me to names. "where does Blackhearted fit into all of this?now really confused He doesn't. Someone mentioned bebop and from stuff I have read here, I believe everyone knows that this bebop and this Blackhearted fella go back a long way. I wanted to make certain that no one started calling me bebop, or Blackhearted, or even started thinking I was into selling light sets for poser. And I don't want to give liftan another reason to start up again, even if -klaus is getting very old. "DTHUREGRIF" sounds like a very real name which seems almost a rare thing around here, much like my name BillyJ, short for Billy James. It is very real too only not in such bold letters. You seem proud of your name and that's cool. A 'two thumbs up' to someone so daring here. I suppose not everyone wishes to use their real names here, and not everyone can have a cool real name like this _Peter in post 97 above here. I can well understand why some folks just might have a real problem using their REAL names. I feel your pain _Peter. "Would you like some salt, and perhaps some catsup?" Lots of pepper Ironbear. I have this thing about pepper. Good Monday.

Wow, what a thread.

Yeah, strange.

"I suppose not everyone wishes to use their real names here, and not everyone can have a cool real name like this _Peter in post 97 above here. I can well understand why some folks just might have a real problem using their REAL names. I feel your pain _Peter." I dont understand why is it so important using our real name. First this is a VIRTUAL community, and then, one of the reasons of the interest of internet chat is that we can be what we are not in real life... just my opinion :))

You could be correct Spiritbro77. Interesting that you know about Bebop and Blackhearted and the light sets BJ. That was a long time ago.

hmmm... Achoooooooooo! Damn Pepper.... "Jackie" who is really "Jackie"

Reference Mongo's pic in #101 above.

I have it on good authority that Mongo actually looks like this (he's the one on top).

The whole store of Bebob and Blackheart and the light sets is not a state secret. It was before my time and I know about them. If someone runs searches on the forums, the stories reveal themselves fairly quickly. Especially since they keep being repeated and repeated and repeated. I imagine many reasons why people wouldn't use their real names on forums. It would be foolish to give so much information that any person could track down another person to their home. No one is obliged to tell everything about themselves to strangers. You are all strangers to me. So if most of us are using false names to begin with, it should hardly surprise us that some use more than one. Yet again, much ado about not much of anything.

"Yet again, much ado about not much of anything. " Yes! And I like using that word "ado" quite often when I play scrabble. Gets em everytime. Happy New Year to you. Happy New Year to everyone.

well I was just confused because I had not thought I had read anything in this thread about either person until now(but I could have missed something and apologize if I did)...anyway, I didn't know anything at all about their little conflict but I rarely go to the forums unless there is some issue I'm interested in...I like the galleries much better... speaking of names and pictures, well my picture is real(but it's 3 years old, guess I should shange it) but my "name" isn't and I was thinking of trying to change it since I now use a different handle in other places anyway...I didn't really change it to hide from anything, it's just that this handle was from an RPG character I had a long time ago and now I've come to prefer another name instead but all of my friends know the new name now and know it's me...I made a point of telling everybody when I changed it.. lynde...err...sorcha....err...Melissa

"Lots of pepper Ironbear. I have this thing about pepper." Why? Are you eating _Peter's shorts also? ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Mewwy Chwistmas and God Bwess evewyone!

--Ok, I got what everyone was talking about with this RadArt stuff. So I did a search in the members photo gallery and this is what I came up with. Now, no way do those two look the same. One has to be in their '20's in their Disco outfit (stayin alive,stayin alive) the other looks to be in their late forties. If those two are the same, then I'll eat my shorts.-- Aah, _Peter... the picture of Pete over at PoserPros shows a slightly different man with greying hair, and it's not THAT different from BillyJ...

L'ultima fòrza è nella morte.

Well.... RadArt [Peter] over at PoserPros swears it's not him, and while I'm the eternal skeptic, since it really doesn't make a rats ass bit of difference to me, I'm willing to take him at his word. But yeah, Hmatienzo's right - Ard's pic in the member's gallery is a bit out of date. I think he's closer to my age than he is to his 20's.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Out of all of the avatars at PoserPros... how many are photographs?

Not many... a handful. Maybe a half dozen to a dozen that I've seen over the past year? The rest are renders like mine or other inages. "Ard's pic"? pleah Rad's. Seriously need an editing feature on this board.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Okay, then say you are right. But then why the charade? Why would he be doing this? Working for the C.I.A.? Hiding out from a loan shark? Witness protection program? Sorry, but I have a hard time comprehending all of this.

He's Elvis? He escaped from the aliens, and he's been hiding out ever since in the bowels of the art community? Surfacing only in times of crisis to hand out jelly donuts to those in desperate need before submerging again into yet another identity? Hell, I don't know. I just chronicle this stuff - I don't invent it, Mongo. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

...And out of that half dozen or so photographs some are animals such as Poppibird and Anton's kitten. Except for Russel and Mehndi, I can't think of any other self-portrait photographs. Admittedly I don't spend much time there anymore (I prefer my morning coffee without sugar or vitriol), however, BillyJ bolstering his identity with a photograph is another point in my argument. And as for why Dragonwalk would strive to create another identity... he is banned from here. That must hurt a person who needs an audience. I'm no psychologist, but an audience of 120,000 members is an attraction stronger than any magnet made of metal... and the clones will keep returning to it. Carolly

So, for showing myself, and who I am in a picture, I am assumed to be someone else trying to get attention? That really makes sense. Interesting summary hauksdottir. By your estimation most of the people here would be here only because an audience of 120,000 members is an attraction stronger than any magnet made of metal...because most folks here are clones or have clones. This much I have determined already. For all I know YOU yourself might be a clone. I guess you have this magnet too? And being here at all can't be for anything positive; why people would even wish to be here; such as inspiration, resources or community spirit, there always has to be a very sinister motive behind something in your eyes, even if there is none, doesn't there hauksdottir? Some say that those that "assume" the worst things about others are in fact exactly as they would assume others to be hauksdottir, maybe you really need to look into your own closet before attemting to create such negatives about others you really do not even know. Happy New Years Day

illusions, you are missing the very last line to complete that song. "Don't you love farce? My fault I fear, I thought that you'd want what I want, Sorry my dear But where are the clones There ought to be clones Quick send in the clones Don't bother, they are here." According to hauksdottir psychology 101 class, I am one big evil clone needing attention. It would appear that although cloning is an accepted everyday custom here and online, it is at the same time also ironically frowned upon by actual clones; even self confessed clone Mongo thumbs down upon my 'assumed' "clonership" by other clones or possible clones! It sure makes a whole lot of sense that someone real is accused of being a big bad clone by clones or others that could be possible clones as well. Now that I am totally dazed and confused beyond hope on this first day of 2003, I better go and make sure I am still myself by looking into a mirror and checking with "real" friends. Happy New Year Afternoon

--Well.... RadArt [Peter] over at PoserPros swears it's not him, and while I'm the eternal skeptic, since it really doesn't make a rats ass bit of difference to me, I'm willing to take him at his word.-- I do too, really... I have known Peter (well, as much as ANYONE knows him, LOL), for quite some time, and he is rather honest about his clones. If he says it's not him, I believe it. Radart, Dragonwalk, and whatever name he is on might rant and rave and spout nonsense at times, but he never really downright lies. -Heike- who is always hmatienzo and Garibaldi's Cat...

L'ultima fòrza è nella morte.

Heh. Taking Rad at his word doesn't mean I can't cheerfully ignore BillyJ on his own merits. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Never has anyone been a better candidate to be ignored !;^> Hey Heike ! We sure miss you at the Poser Newsgroup !

I gotta go along with the majority and read the telltale signs/marks.
Sigh
He's back.

'Lo, Badco, darling! Miss y'all too, but my provider doesn't carry Poser! (Carries Bryce, though, go figger!) They said Poser is NOT family-oriented... sigh. Mongo... who is back???? (scratching head)

L'ultima fòrza è nella morte.

Oh...Okay, I'll play along. Nope not here. Don't see 'em. Nope, nope, nope.
Toddle-oo!

Maybe its just me, but I dun think its him.. I mean he never took up for the admins before.. quite the opposite really right?... Just my 2 c's worth..

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
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Nope, always took up for the admins. the story that was passed on, was that whomever used to be a mod named 3DSprite. Something went wrong and was no longer a mod. From then on it was major suck-up. But, that is just the story that was passed on from the elders here. Everything sure does fit though. And actually, from the info that was passed to myself, there isa certain writing style that has been unique to said individual time and time again. Do I care? Not really. Just another attention starved doofus.

I don't believe in cheap gossip. The day shall be rued!!
Morte ai hemmoroids!!!!

Heike, Not family oriented ? hehe ! Us ? Ok, I really can't argue with your provider on that one !:^> Peter, Rued ? Arrrrrrrrggggggggg.............heh heh ! You're stepping over the line mister !!!!!!! We won't stand for that kind of language in the 21st century !

Oh, if "Monday morning, gave me no warning..." was it a rued awakening? :wanders off humming: