Well I've been going through my 10 CD's of Poser stuff, and building Runtime on my new PC. After doing battle with hundreds of zipfiles I've got these suggestions, that should make everyone's lives easier: Name a file with the same prefix everytime, so all your zips end up together in a folder. example: LM_mouse_c.zip, LM_tudorwalls_nc.zip Name each file with a suffix - C for Commercial and NC for noncommercial. That way the user knows without opening the file whether its good for commercial or noncommercial use Name each file inside the zip with the prefix and suffix- that way the readme is not even needed. Make a readme anyway, just in case. (texture makers should 'sign' every image too) Name each file with the model name, to make things less confusing : LM_V3_kendra_C.zip containing lm_v3_kendrahd_c.jpg, lm_v3_kendrabd_c.jpg, etc. And lastly, if you can try to make a full file tree (runtime:geometry:yourfolder, runtime:library:character:yourfolder) that makes it a thousand times easier to load files. Thanks everyone and thank you all for the massive amounts of freestuff I've collected over the years :) Lyrra the .....

Lyrra, any suggest to how to built a new library? I mean how u separate the itemes, i.e. all victoria bikini together or by the artist? Runnerma

trying to do this with the file names can become a problem. Remember for MAC compatability the name + extension can not excede 31 characters.

Lyrra, Far better to put the maker's name or initials at the END of the filename!!! If somebody ONLY does female skin textures (HappyWorldLand for example) then it doesn't matter where the name is, all the files will end up in my Skin Textures folder. But few people only do one thing... even Schlabber has branched into other categories besides poses. For somebody like Traveler it is essential to put the name of the object first so that rayguns go under Weapons and mushroom houses go under Architecture. Including the author's name is essential to keep books and goblets from being overwritten by the next file called simply "book.zip" :sigh: I've upped the number of basic folders to 7. At the time of download, I rename the zip and stash it into one of: character, animal, hair, clothes, stuff, lights, territory. (This is on my sacrificial internet-connected PC.) Files then get moved to the Mac and put into proper folders such as Plants, Jewelry, Books&Scrolls, etc.. However, even within that it is helpful if the first part of the zip name is a descriptor: "palm-queen-thgeisal.zip" helps if there are a couple hundred plants in the folder! I worked my way through college as a reference librarian (4 years experience with both Dewey Decimal and Library of Congress systems). The most important part of ANY filing system is to put things where they can be readily found again. This depends on the logic of the user, and users tend to be lazy and easily frustrated. If you were hunting for a suit of armor for Mike, would you rather look under the names of everybody who possibly could have made such a thing? Or in the Armor folder? Since so many of the inquiries here are of the type "I need a peacock" rather than "I need something by Anton", I suspect that most artists have an image rather than a creator name in mind when they are building a scene, and if they named and filed their zips by image they could lay hands on them faster. If they added the creator's name, they wouldn't be asking later "who made this?" I usually have to add other information when renaming the zip: what it is and who it is for. For props it isn't essential to indicate which character it is for. Even hair models can be tweaked to fit almost everybody. Other assets are more particular. "Tiffanytex4v2-artist.zip" tells me without having to open it that it is a skin texture for Vicky2, whereas "Tiffanytex4uwing-artist.zip" should go under fairy wings. Slapping a stained glass texture all over Victoria is interesting, but avoidable. ;^) If someone wants my category names, I'll post them as a starting point. An artist who specializes in robots and battleships (for example) would have a different emphasis in the subcategories, but just about everybody downloads "furniture" and "hair". Having more information in the filenames makes the right item easier to find. If the creator of the file adds this information, that item might get used more and proper credit will be given. Carolly

I think I am with hauksdottir on this issue . I would rather have all the identical items togeather IE: hats,cats,mice.... Besides its how i inventory my own items . While we are at it It would be nice to have a thumnail photo of what the product looks like in the zipp . :)

Oh Carolly, I would LOVE to see your category names. I'm in the beginning stages of rebuilding my runtime on my new comp also and don't want it to be quite the mess it is on my old one. Any suggestions and direction you can give for organization would be definately appreciated :) Pendy

All very good points :). I usually try to keep an "AA_" at the beginning of all my zips and my filenames, especially with my newer stuff. Laurie

In the end, for me, it doesn't matter what you name your zips because I change them anyway when I download. Well, um, I like to right-click and save the thumbnail with every zip I grab. I save the thumbnail first and name the thumbnail when I save it. I give it a name and put the author's name at the end, and nco in there somewhere if it's non-commercial only. Then I CTRL-C to copy the name I typed, hit save on the dialog, then grab the zip. I paste into the save dialog for the zip so the name's the same as the thumbnail. This way I have a thumbnail and zip together with the same name. (I can browse it all in XP's Explorer in thumbnail view..I love it!) My downloads directory has scads of sub-directories and I download directly where it belongs. When the Directory folder reaches 5-600 megs I save off to cd. It's already organized. And this is what I teach my Poser class..don't know if any of them actually do it though. Oh, one other thing. When I name the file as I'm saving, I usually prefix with V_ for Vicky, M_for Michael, V3_, P4F, etc. where applicable.

Carolly, me too i would love to see your category names... Runnerma

This one of those things where personal work styles matter a great deal. Like I said - just suggestions. I was speaking only of the zipfiles themselves - I sort everything as they are downloaded by category and subcategories and by C/NC. The author names just help in meta-searches. I can search my entire collection for anyhting with RDNA in it for example, or I can go and look under Lights and find all the RDNA lights handily clumped together. My actual runtime folders are sorted by type, not maker. So I have for example Poser:Downloads:Props:furniture:scifi:Commercial Poser:Downloads:Characters:Mil:Vik:Vik1:vik1loRes Special cases Poser:Downloads:Purchased:DAZ:Nov22 (rename the exe's as they come in or you'll be confused forever) Poser:PoserWorld:Clothing:Dork:Historical Poser:Hair:Kozaboro Of course this means that everytime I update my collection I have to combine the fresh DL's with the archive and reburn the WHOLE mess. Up to 12 CD's now (not counting my 6 CD's of work area backups) It does mean that I have very few duplicates. Runnerma Right now I am loading a new machine with a Commercial only RUntime. This means that I first grabbed the large groups of stuff that I knew to be commercial only (DAZ, RDNA, other purchased items, subscription items) and loaded all that into a scratch dir. Most of them unpacked into small runtimes which I combined into one big one which I'm tidying up. Once I'm happy with the structure, I'll drop it on top of the blank installation Runtime. Then as I add new things I can install manually into my folders. This is the structure of my old machines Runtime, I'm doing essentially the same thing for the new one. Now of course I have folders for Vik, Vik3, Mike, and OtherMil (kids, Aiko, Herma, etc). This is the Characters library - the other folders are about the same, except Geometries and textures which I just leave as they come in. The exception in the textures folder: skin textures without cr2s get dropped into subfolders in DL_skins, and universal hair textuyres get dropped into DL_hair. Other textures without cr2's are dropped into folders with the model name so I can find them again. (for example: all 43 colors of Kozaboros' Alice hair) It's a lot of work, but in the end run it means that I can throw together a character fairly quickly and have more time for finetuning the important stuff. Since I'm about to start a graphic novel, speed and ease of use is important to me. Lyrra

For heaven's sake! DO NOT multiply folders unnecessarily. It is a PAIN. And sorting things by vendor is about the most useless way of doing it. Why should I want a folder specifically for things made by (for sake of example) PhilC? Am I ever going to look for something in that way? Am I going to look at a figure and say "What's needed here is something by PhilC, fortunately I have these all set apart?" No, I'm going to say "What's needed here is a DRESS" and I'm going to want to look in a folder called Dresses where there may be dresses made by all sorts of people. With all due respect to PhilC and all the other great modellers out there, frankly, I don't care who made it, I care about what it is and whether it fits the picture I'm working on. It's like these stupid software houses who would like your start menu to run "Program files/ Supersoft/ Supersoft Programs/ Supersoft Graphics Programs/ Superpaint" whereas anyone with a bit of intelligence will arrange it something like "Program files/ Graphics Programs/ Superpaint".

Ugh...glad you brought this up Lyrra :) I'm sorting through 4 gigs of zips right now...I think I'll be here most of the day, lol. -Des

I see I wrote "Program files" instead of "Programs" above. However, the same point is largely valid about file structure as well as the start menu. There is no point in installing Poser to "program filescurious labsposer" unless you like having redundant layers in your file hierarchies. You can just install to "program filesposer". In fact, in the case of Poser especially, it's probably better to install it at the top level - c:poser or d:poser. This is because you often want to get directly at the runtime directory, and having this as high up the file hierarchy as possible saves time.

I'm with Phantast. (Especially since he sort of quoted my namesake....) Grouping by type of thing and then by figure, makes more sense than the present tradition. Ideally, every part of one figure, including its CR2, textures, and OBJ files, should be in one folder, so that when you want to delete or modify that figure you can find all its parts without having to navigate many non-parallel layers. This grouping by figure is entirely possible: it only requires that the CR2 specify its own OBJs and textures without a path. I suggested this some time ago and got bombed for it.

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ockham, it is possible to do that with Propack but not Poser4. Not sure of 5. And can I say I didn't mean to stir up a ruckus? sigh Lyrra

I think you can with P4 as well; I'm fairly sure of it. Also, you can certainly keep all the textures in the same subdirectory as the cr2 (or pp2) if you want. You don't even need to reference it.

Lyrra - the geometry and texture references are just text, so simply change the path to point to the library folder. However, I do the opposite - when Kozaburo puts the OBJ in the hair library, or people put the textures in a library folder or the root of Runtime:Textures I move and edit.

I do not like the idea of everything in the libraries for one figure being in one folder. It's really silly as far as I'm concerned. The way it is now is much more flexible. And I'll take the pain of hunting things down for deletion when/if I ever decide to delete something in its entirety. I LIKE to be able to move CR2's around to a different folder if I reorganize. I don't want to have to move objects and textures as well which absolutely requires you do it outside of Poser. I mean, I can load a CR2 from one folder in Poser, and make some changes and save it to another folder, and go back and delete the original one. All from inside Poser. I don't have to worry about moving the object too. Putting .obj in with the cr2 or .pp2 is totally inflexible. What if I set up Mike with a certain outfit and hair and want to use him as a character in medieval scenes? And set up another Mike as a character I'll be using in more modern scenes..If the Mike .obj has to be in with the cr2 I'm stuck putting ALL my Mike cr2s in one folder! That's ridiculous. Or, even worse, I'd have to duplicate the .obj and put it in all library folders that contain a Mike cr2. See what I mean? The way Poser does it gives you total flexibility to set up your folders...and change them...however you want.

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Been there... Done that... after a couple of years trying to make a logical file system for Poser files, I have come to the conclusion that there is NO ONE SINGLE method that works in all cases. So I have taken a different approach alltogether: I first started to build a database application that would allow me to search and locate any file (by author or confromer or item type etc), but I found that the data entry process was just too cumbersome to do on a regular basis. But the CONCEPT of a searchable database is still the most logical approach, and I have now found a SIMPLE system that gives me all the benefits of a searchable database with image thumbnails, product info, and paths to archive locations. Here is how it works: Each time you acquire a file (download a freebie or purchase it) be sure to also download the thumbnail (or product image) and name it EXACTLY THE SAME as the product ZIP or EXE (except with .jpg extension). Download BOTH the file and the image into the same "INCOMING" folder so that they will sort together. As you download, append the AUTHOR's NAME to the beginning OR end of the file (as your personal taste dictates) AND add any other identifying info to the filename (such as 4Victoria2 or 4MicCloPak2 or -C, -NC for commercial/non use), and be sure the associated image is identically named. You will end up with something like the following: MermaidDress-ISOP-4Victoria.jpg MermaidDress-ISOP-4Victoria.zip MermaidDress-ISOP-Texture01-by_Somebody-NC-.zip MermaidDress-ISOP-Texture01-by_Somebody-NC-.jpg Victoria2 PrincessAriana character - SomebodyElse-C-.exe Victoria2 PrincessAriana character - SomebodyElse-C-.jpg You get the idea... try to be consistent in your conventions and use - (hyphen) and _ (underscore) to make easier reading and sorting of the files. For example you will get better results searching for "-C-" when looking for commercial use files than if you search for "C" which will return hundreds of useless results. It is more important to include any sorting information you might need in the filename (like keywords in a database) than it is to worry about the sequence. Also I recommend using "4Victoria" to indiciate an original item that conforms to another item and "Victoria-" to indicate an add-on or supplement (such as a skin texture), character or pose file (without the 4). This also helps narrow searches later on. Also important is converting all archived files to conform to your standard. For example, use a batch rename program like TheRename and change all "Vic", "Vicky", "Vicky's" to a standard "Victoria-" - just doing this will make your files much easier to browse and search - don't use just "Vic" or any searches you do later on will include such things as "convict" and "victory" and a lot of other things that will clutter your search - use the full name. Alother example, try to standardize each author's name such as changing all "Phil-C", "Phil C", Phil_C to the same "PhilC" standard - likewise "DAZ", "Daz 3d", "DAZ-3D" references should be standardized to a single format. Sometimes we are in a hurry while doing a download session, so it is not convenient to do this file renaming at that time - NO PROBLEM - that is why we use an INCOMING folder, and don't mix new things in with other archives till they are renamed. Sometimes the information we might want to include in the filename is not available till we open the .ZIP and read the readme - NO PROBLEM - just be SURE to get an image or thumbnail and name it the same as the .ZIP (.exe .sit etc) and put them both in the "incoming" folder. Later we can go to the incoming folder and fix everything the way we want prior to merging the files in our archive. In the event that an image is not available, create a "NO_Image" file (or use the one above), and use that by naming it the same as the filename excepy that "-No_Image" is appended at the end. For example: Victoria2 PrincessAriana character - SomebodyElse-C-No_Image.jpg When you have a CD full of files ready to archive, check the names once more and be sure you have a .JPG - matching EACH file's name - even if it is a dummy "Filename-no_image.jpg" Burn your files (with images if you want to) onto a CD (I recommend always burning 2 identical CDs just to have a spare)- Give your CD a name like "Poser Files01". Then delete the object files from your HD but DO NOT delete the images. Instead create a Master folder called "ARCHIVES" and within that a new folder named EXACTLY the same as the CD was named ("Poser Files01" in this case) and move all the images into that folder. In this manner, you will have a picture file matching every filename in your collection and located in a folder with a name matching the CD archive. At any time you can use the "find files" feature on your computer and point it at the "ARCHIVE" master folder. Perform your search including subfolders (for example "PhilC") and you will generate a list of all files you currently have by PhilC (or whatever you search for) - plus images - and the folder name where the image is located will tell you which archive CD the actual file is on. Eventually you will have a corresponding image file for all of your archives on your HD - even if you have thousands of files representing many Gigabytes of data, just keeping the images on your HD will not burden most systems today, and you will have the equivalent of a searchable database at your fingertips that never needs updating and is always current. The key is in creating searchable filenames and making the corresponding images. This brings us back to the actual topic of the thread :-) file naming conventions for content creators. Although I don't think we will ever get everybody to agree on a single "best system", I would ask that people try to adhere to the following simple standards: 1) Authors: please include your name or identifier in the filename - I think most users would prefer at the END, but better at the beginning than not at all. 2) Please don't be afraid of long filenames - but remember that HTML ans some browsers will not always display blank spaces properly, so use - (hyphen) and _ (underscore) to separate parts of the filename. 3) Please try to include the conformer item (required item) if there is one - in the file name. For example: "GroundTexture-4TransPond_MenmeDeCaomh-byRS.zip" "Victoria3-Audry_texture-RS." "Michael2-ClothingPak1-byRonstuff" 4) Create the main thumbnail image or product image with EXACTLY the same filename as the product file. (I know this is not possible on files hosted on some sites which rename the files arbitrarily - but when it is possible, pleast try to do it). These are simple things to do, and allow a lot of freedom and flexibility, but if all content providers would at least do these 4 things, all of our lives would be much, much easier.

Excellent info! I already do the thumbnail-the-same-name-as-the-file bit but you have some very good tips on naming conventions to make searching easier. Love the idea of keeping the thumbnails as your at-hand database, organized by CD. Happy New Year!

What ronstuff said but use something like thumbsplus to make a contact sheet of your thumbnails and you've got a nice catalog to browse thru when you're just not sure exactly what would work with your project. If your keep orderly directories of your downloads, thumbsplus can make a new sheet for each directory which gives you a way to categorize the sheets too.

Attached Link: http://www.irfanview.com/english.htm

Right, once you have the collection of images as your database, you can do lots of things. You can even copy them and make a set of directories sorted by author's name. The HTML thumbnail pages is also a good idea, but don't waste your money on ThumbsPlus because I-View will do the job just as well, and it's FREE (see attached link) -- I-View will also make contact sheet images of the thumbnails, batch rename and batch enhance them as well.

And don't forget...if you have XP use thumbnail view in Explorer. I find things much faster browsing and looking than doing searches.